Cheating stinks

[lmcconnell]

I have have been playing for several months and have played all the tiny and small scenarios. By far the BIGGEST problem with the game, and the source of the largest amount of frustration, is the fact that the computer get 2-3 "FREE" shots at you before you units can "see" them. The, to save your unit, you must replay from the last save. Over and over. Or restart the game.

Now I realize there is "fog of war" but this is silly and seems a bit unfair. Why don't I get "free shots". Never happens !!

Anyone else think the game cheats ??

[Iskander]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by novApulse:

Anyone else think the game cheats ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all. May I politely suggest you review the various and sundry articles available to you concerning cover, movement and tactics.

As a program, the game cannot, per se, cheat. That would have to have been coded in, and I do not think that BTS has done that.

[Hamsters]

I get free shots, you mean you don't? Must be your attitude, CM features special attitude scanning software that gives you free shots, running MG teams and kickass SS if you have a good attitude but penalizes you with free shots, invulnerable Sd/Kfz's and excellent arty accuracy for your opponent if you have a bad attitude.

[ 04-09-2001: Message edited by: Hamsters ]

[Juju]

Replay from the last save? Ouch!

And NO, the game doesn't cheat. It's called fortunes of war.

You get "free" shots as well. All the time really. Works both ways.

BTW novApulse, when you say "biggest problem" in the game, what do you mean exactly? You have others? If so, what are they? They might be as easily explained as this one.

And welcome to the board!

[ 04-09-2001: Message edited by: Juju ]

[lmcconnell]

I suppose noone else has ever had the enormously satisfying experience of having one of their units knocked out and 5 seconds later seeing the enemy units appear out of thin air ??

You find this pleasant ??

[dalem]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by novApulse:

I suppose noone else has ever had the enormously satisfying experience of having one of their units knocked out and 5 seconds later seeing the enemy units appear out of thin air ??

You find this pleasant ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The game is attempting to accurately simulate something called "Real Life". Oftentimes in Real Life things that are hiding with guns will get a chance to shoot you before you see them. Studies have indicated that this chance rises dramatically under combat conditions.

If you don't enjoy this feature of the game then you should play with the Fog of War settings switched Off. Then you will see everything on the map all the time, like checkers.

-dale

[WWB]

Well, what you fail to see is that you get the same 'free' shots. You just cannot tell if they are 'free' or not. You see, you can see your units, but you have no idea weather or not they have been spotted until they are shot at.

Try plaing a hotseat game against yourself and you will see what is really going on.

And replaying the turn several times is cheeting if I have ever heard of it.

[Juju]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by novApulse:

You find this pleasant ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course it isn't pleasant, but hey, I do it to my opponents as well. And believe me, it's satisfying as hell! That's the game, man. That's what you get when you send armed men out into the field. That's war.

IMO one ability you absolutely have to have when you play CM is the ability to cut your losses and move on.

Feel sorry for every guy you lose unexpectedly, and you lose the game.

In short: always expect the unexpected!

[Herr Oberst]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by novApulse:

I suppose noone else has ever had the enormously satisfying experience of having one of their units knocked out and 5 seconds later seeing the enemy units appear out of thin air ??

You find this pleasant ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me propose a scenario:

You play the Allies with a bunch of Shermans...

I play the Germans on defense with cover and a few 88's...

By all reasonable estimates, if on target, my first salvo of 88's should fry your armor BEFORE you hear the noise of the gun.

Check the muzzle velocity. I agree that life sucks when your first hint of an enemy is something going boom, but that's the nature of the game, and this particular facet of the game is modeled painfully well.

[mensch]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Herr Oberst:

Let me propose a scenario:

You play the Allies with a bunch of Shermans...

I play the Germans on defense with cover and a few 88's...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

typical Herr Orbst, no lets play a game you get a few 50mm AT guns and I get Pershings...

no wonder you have easy wins in the cess.. you set them up, HEY your CHEETING YOU GAMEY GIT! I'm telling.. uh.. telling... I'm just telling! so there!

[Cos]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by novApulse:

I suppose noone else has ever had the enormously satisfying experience of having one of their units knocked out and 5 seconds later seeing the enemy units appear out of thin air ??

You find this pleasant ??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pleasent no, but I did learn to leave the vehicles unbuttoned as long as possible with infantry support on the flanks while advancing (at less then fast speed). Hiding units will tend to appear after the first shot (or more) and tend to nail their target.

I can think of more then one time when I couldn't even see the threat after it took out my unit. It's a pain, but it's also time to change my plans unless I want to lose more of my units.

[bowman74]

If the computer is cheating, it must be the most piss-poor cheater in history. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to kick its buttocks time and time again. You don't want your armor to get knocked out by hidden units, then I suggest you try doing some scouting. Just because you don't notice the deer in the woods before it ran in front of your car, it didn't mean that it wasn't there all along.

Thanks,

Kevin

[harpooner]

If you want to talk about CHEATING, consider how unfair you are to the AI to restart your game from your old save.

Now that's cheating. The AI can't hit reset when you out-fox it.

In the end your lousy attitude is cheating you out of a more accurate model of the vaugeries of war.

You will lose more often when you play humans, as well, because you will have the idea that you can somehow have a gimmee or a do-over if you get unlucky.

Think again pal.

Try operating your tanks unbuttoned more often.

[mrspkr2]

Agreed. The AI doesn't "cheat." Haven't you ever heard of cover? Why do you think AT guns and Tanks use camoflage? The whole point of war is to be able to eliminate the other guy's men and equipment with a minimum loss to yourself. Ideally, on defense, you are able to defeat an enemy attack without revealling your positions.

You should be pleased that the AI doesn't get nasty, like a human player does. You haven't really lived until you successfully hide a group of AT guns and men and wiped out an entire enemy column without significant return fire.

An example of this style is described at http://www.combatmission.com/articles/fogofwar/fowatg_1.asp.

Here, Fionn Kelly plays the Germans ambushing a column of Allied armor. Fionn has 3 88mm ATG's and a King Tiger; the Allies have 14 tanks (2 Stuarts, the rest Shermans of one sort or another, including one Jumbo to offset the King Tiger). Fionn played both sides and took screen shots to show how sighting works.

In my own games, I have used sharpshooters to nail tank commanders on a regular basis. Often, the sharpshooter can get two or three shots off before the enemy can pin down his location.

mrspkr2

[Wilhammer]

:cool:

It is not cheating, it is one of the greatest things about CM!

If you don't like it, shut Fog Of War off.

Just remember, you won't enjoy the game much and, more importantly, won't learn from it when you try to take on a human.

[Ellros]

I played a QB once, where for over 5 turns I could hear and see German 20mm shells bouncing off one of my tanks, but I could never see what was doing the shooting. Eventually I found out it was a 20mm Flak sitting inside a treeline. Small guns are not easy to spot when in cover, especially if the target tank is buttoned.

[Micheal Wittman]

I think the AI is a "dum dum" even with experience of pluse 3. It only goes for attrition. Those little binary brains are so

uncreative But alas bring on the humans

to crush you

[lcm1947]

No, NO, NO! I think the game cheats also! And when I catch it it'll be sorry. I hate cheaters! And to think at one time I trusted it.

[Capt Ro]

ROFLMAO

[abuhabib]

i'd side with novApulse. often enuff been zapped by the enemy when i'm hiding among trees, waiting 4 an ambush, n he's in the open!

[Sten]

Ok. For all the new guys, esp. novApulse and abuhabib, let me (again) state this very clearly:

The AI doesn't cheat.

It plays by the same rules as you do. When bad stuff happens to you, it is not because the AI has any undocumented advantage.

Get back to the drawing board and try to do things another way. With some practice, you'll be able to kick the AI's butt, but you'll have some learning to do first.

Heed the advice others have given you. Recon before you expose your vehicles. Almost never button up your tanks, let them do that themselves.

Assume that every treeline is enemy occupied until proven otherwise.

Sten

[KMHPaladin]

Good lord... hahaha... you think that it's "cheating" when the AI finds a well-concealed position and shoots at you? I'm sorry... wait a second... I have to pick myself up off the floor...

Okay I'm back. Yeah, I suggest you go back to playing Command and Conquer until such a point as you can learn

1. 
   <LI> Just because a unit fires at you, doesn't mean it is magically revealed.
   <LI> Lurk on a forum, or at least read a few posts, before you post something that is not only blatantly inflammatory, but purely wrong.
   <LI> War is hell. Deal with it.
   

Thus endeth the flame...

[ 04-10-2001: Message edited by: KMHPaladin ]

[The Commissar]

Come now, fellers, dont be so harsh on the newbies. Many of them might just have stepped out of their usual "build and rush" sort of gameplay seen in RA2, AoE, Starcrap, and other such games. Give them advice, but have a little patience.

All of you giving scouting tips, keep at it. Helping out the new guys will ensure you have better opponents in the future.

[-E]

The AI does cheat. I caught it cheating (had a fifth Ace up its' sleeve). I had to take it out back and teach it a lesson. When I was breaking its' fingers & kneecaps, it suddenly just died (see! it even cheated me out of my just revenge!). So I had to get another game. I think the word has gotten out, as I haven't noticed any AI's trying to cheat around here anymore!

So as you can see, everybody above is right, depending on if their AI knew of or was related to my original AI, and got the word about what happens to CM AI cheaters.

[Mr. Hankey]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by novApulse:

...to save your unit, you must replay from the last save. Over and over. Or restart the game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Save your unit? Save your unit?? So if you can't win every game against the AI, the game cheats?? In the first place, just losing one unit, even if it's a King Tiger or somefink like that will not lose you the game. You will lose, however, if you consistently and continually make tacical errors in handling your remaining units. Typically the guy who makes the fewest mistakes will win. Barring plain old bad luck, that is. I learn something from every mistake I've made in every game. Whether I remember it the next time, is another story .

Anyway, not to be harsh, why not just play through the game with no reloads? You will learn a lot and you might find it more satisfying when you win. Or better yet, play against a human, you'll definitely see a different approach to the game. If you want to try a game, I'll play you, and I will point out things to look out for in the game, not that I'm an expert or anything. I have played some extremely good players and won. Sometimes it helps to have a few pointers and I still need help a lot of times. Again, I'm not trying to be condesending, just trying to be of assistance.

[ 04-11-2001: Message edited by: Mr. Hankey ]