Artillery Barrage: Sit still or run away?

[Doug Williams]

Here is a question that has been bothering me since I started playing CM. If you have infantry dug in in foxholes in woods or tall pines and you notice a spotting round land nearby, should you order your men to run away or should you have them sit tight and "weather the storm"? Does having them hide make any difference?

[Peterk]

I think the standard operating procedure is to have guys sit through a barrage. But, if you happen to be "lucky" enough to have a spotting round fall at the end of a turn and can change your orders and get out fast, it just might work.

p.

[Juardis]

hug the bottom of the hole, no question. If not in a hole though, get the heck out. Hiding seems to help, but could just be my imagination.

[Cos]

If they can get inside a building quickly then make a run for it. If the arty is big enough to knock down a building then it won't matter if they were in the foxhole or the building. Dead meat either way.

[Skipper]

Watch the caliber. If it is lowly 75/81mm, and it falls towards the end of turn, and you have a feeling that the follow up is goping to be an assault, and you have secondary positions to fall back to (as you should!), running from under the barrage might be a reasonable choice.

[Guest ckoharik]

For me it would depend upon the apparent size of the spotting round in addition to nearby cover and how critical those units were to my defense. Big rounds and nearby cover would probably make me think about withdrawing until the barrage stopped. But, for the most part I would tend to leave troops in their holes.

[Lah]

I found 'hide' is the best for reducing casualties.

[109 Gustav]

If you do decide to run, run to the side. This will get you out of the arty zone faster, especially if you're facing Regular spotters.

[Skipper]

Question is, how are you going to WITHDRAW to the side?

[109 Gustav]

You can't withdraw to the side, but I find that it's still safer to move to the side. It really depends on the situation, relative cover to the side and rear, and caliber and experience of the arty spotter.

[David Aitken]

"Hiding" will help because rather than wait for the men to take cover themselves, and risk being hit by shrapnel before doing so, you make sure they're already hugging the ground. Or, indeed, hugging a tree – which is best practice to avoid tree bursts.

Foxholes with rooves are the best protection against tree bursts – I assume CM foxholes to be rooved.

[ 04-11-2001: Message edited by: David Aitken ]

[Warmaker]

Depending on the estimated size of arty hitting you. If you're dug in and receiving 75mm arty or 60-81mm mortar fire, suck it up. The foxholes/buildings give excellent protection. Same can be said against 105mm. However, big guns like the U.S. 155mm can wreak havok. If you're in Hvy.Buildings in excellent condition than I would stay with it. Anything else I would suggest getting out. Learned this the hard way being too stubborn to hold onto a road "chokepoint" and the U.S. player decided to use 155mm with VT fuses on my grenadiers in the woods. Ouch.

Keep in mind too that blasting an area with even hvy.arty isn't a garaunteed way to claim an area. I've survived Hvy.Arty barrages with only a handful of casualties per platoon and lots of rubble/craters to hide troops in. I personally tend to think the level of experience affects what the troops do under such barrages and the number of casualties received.

[busboy]

If at all possible, move forward. If they can't see you, they're not likely to assume you'll advance, they're more likely to assue you'll fall back. If you do fall back, then you'll eventually have to recapture that ground again... not very effective. If they can see you, close in fast and get close enough that their artillery can't shoot without hitting their men.

The only time one should not use this meathod is if you'd simply be cut down in the advance before you could effectively hit the enemy. If that's the case, try having non-supressed units supress the enemy while the ones coming under fire advance.

Finally, keep advancing. Often, an ok attack now is better than a perfect one later. If you can keep up a diciplined advance, then their artillery won't be able to draw a bead on you... by the time the rounds start hitting the trees you massed in, you're already 1/4 a mile away from 'em and running like hell toward your next objective!

Keep up the pressure, and force the enemy to play by your rules. Even on the defensive, a tactical offensive may very well whip an enemy while they're still getting set. Just remember that patience is only a virtue when you have done all there is to do already.

This philosophy borrows heavily from Patton, and I quote him indirectly several times here. It has always prooven very effective for me.

[Zulu]

test

[Bruno Weiss]

At the moment, with v1.2, there is not always player control over the options. Infantry and vehicles which undergo an intense artillery barrage, tend to just up and scamper off. Worse yet in the direction of the enemy. Tanks and vehicles seem to be the most affected by this, but infantry has also been reported by some to have shown this inclination. Something I did not see in v1.1.

[Juju]

I've read some interesting ways to avoid arty strikes here by running in certain directions like "forward, back or to the side."

Most of them are dead wrong unfortunately. That is, if you want your men to get out as fast as possible and safely.

I'll try to explain: Suppose an artillery strike hits your troops, and let us assume you want to pull out of the impact zone ASAP, there are some critical factors which need to be taken into account:

An artillery strike where the spotter has a LOS to his target will produce a specific impact pattern which is always oriented east to west. The impact pattern is roughly a rectangle of 100x50 meters. If the spotter has no LOS the impact zone will be roughly 200x100 meters. All quickbattles -as far as I know- place the opposing sides on the east and west sides of the map, in which case the best option for avoiding artillery strikes would be to either move north or south!

Now, a little drawback: If your opponent selects a wide impact pattern for his spotter things suddenly look entirely different. In this case, the pattern will be circular, from 200 to 400 meters in diameter, depending on LOS and/or the use of TRP's.

The shells won't fall as thickly as in the standard pattern but cover a much larger area, in which case trying to run away from arty is rather pointless.

Did someone mention rockets? They produce a 650 to 700 meter circular pattern, no matter how they're fired. The chance of a unit taking a direct hit is pretty slim. The chance of getting out of such a pattern before a rocket battery is out of ammo is even slimmer, so one might as well not bother. In that case I'd just sit tight and wait for it to stop.

[ 04-11-2001: Message edited by: Juju ]

[GriffinCheng+]

Normally, I would not let my men walk in the barrage and seems that it is more likely that you get the whole squad wipped this way, not to mention that you would expect an enemy hideout less than 50m before you.

Most of the barrages I face is when my troops stop. Note that most barrages fall within a certain area so, either you move your troops out of the "most probable" landing zone, in case you men are likely to be near the edge of that zone, or just issue a hide command. Running blinding around only makes your men collecting all the shells fell. That is no good. Note also that except your men is routed, they are likely to stay in one location even casualites have been substained.

Griffin.

[Vanir Ausf B]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juju:

the best option for avoiding artillery strikes would be to either move north or south!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's what they meant by "to the side". Most people view the battlefield from an East-West perspective.

[ 04-11-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ]

[LimShady]

Sorry.... couldn't resist....

King Arthur: We've been more than reasonable...... RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!

LimShady

[109 Gustav]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B:

I think that's what they meant by "to the side". Most people view the battlefield from an East-West perspective.

[ 04-11-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

By "move to the side" I meant "perpindicular to the enemy's or your route of advance."

When facing rockets or target wide, it's best just to sit tight and hide your troops. You'll have to spend too much time moving through the arty zone to reach saftey, and the chances of a direct hit from a wide target are negligible.

[Heibis]

If hit by a barrage while attacking, I advance. This is a must, or else you will never get anywhere.

If hit while defending, I mostly hide, but if the barrage is too heavy, I try to get out of there in an orderly fashion...

Jens

[Guest Babra]

In real life, become one with the earth.

In CM, run, run like the wind.

Arty patterns in CM are ovoid with the long axis oriented east-west. Therefore, run to the nearest cover north or south.

[Lah]

I guess if it's large calibre which has longer gaps between the shells dropping you could issue a withdraw order, timing though

[KiwiJoe]

Well IF you know whether your enemy is using mortars or gun artillery then there are different methods to choose. Mortar artillery will fall in a long narrow pattern which makes running forward or backwards a bad move unless you can move pretty quickly. You are best off moving to the side to get out of the impact zone. Gun artillery is the opposite. It falls in a wide shallow pattern. Thus moving forward or backwards is the best choice. Howeva withdrawing is usually the best method, if you decide to move at all, since there is no command delay.

Its also important to note when the last rounds hit at the end of the turn, or how long ago the spotting round fell. You REALLY don't want to be caught fast moving in the middle of a barrage. For example, German 150mm has a 25-27 sec interval between barrages. So if you can get out in that perod of time then go for it.

Hiding does reduce hits.. especially agiasnt the small stuff... 81mm mortar etc.

[maxm2]

Joe to Willie, hugging the ground during an arty barrage in one of Bill Mauldin's WWII cartoons:

"I can't get no lower, Willie--my buttons are in the way!"