The U.S. lobby in 'Combat Mission'

[dalem]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Heya Guys

I would also ask people to remember that things are not always what they seem on the internet. Other than the posters comments we have no way to be sure that he is indeed whom he claims to be (especially considering he has given us no email address), so lets not draw any conclusions on the books mentioned above too quickly.

Thanks Guys

Dan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aaaawwwwww, you guys never let us have any fun! :(

[bfamily33]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C Dunphie:

What strikes me most deeply after poring over many months (years?) of messages

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that so Junior Member #6745?

[Ales Dvorak]

Hi M..... whatever.

[bfamily33]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C Dunphie:

I've found the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You too. We call them Gordo, Maximus and the great bald one.

That last one should get this locked up for sure.

Btw, Madmatt - I got my present today! Thanks! BTS is tops in my book!

[Slapdragon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Heya Guys

Im keeping an eye on this thread as I could see the second it was posted it would be a hot topic, and although I will leave it open for the time being for the origional author to comment, I suspect it will be padlocked sooner rather than later.

It is hard to be certain but I suspect that due to the tone of the origional post the author may be more interested in causing a stir that seriously commenting on the concerns that have been raised.

I would also ask people to remember that things are not always what they seem on the internet. Other than the posters comments we have no way to be sure that he is indeed whom he claims to be (especially considering he has given us no email address), so lets not draw any conclusions on the books mentioned above too quickly.

Thanks Guys

Dan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suspected the same thing on reading Mr. Dunphie's first post, and I would love to have some citations on his many books.

First, I suspect he is a mole: his IP address would tell us who he really was -- but so far we have a group which thinks the Brits are getting screwed, a group that thinks the yanks are getting screwed, god knows we have a group that thinks the Germans are getting screwed, so basically we have someone who thinks someone is getting screwed.

Second, Mr. Dunphie fails to realize the composition of the Beta testers. While they are a secretive lot, someone in a good place to know told me that Americans were in the minority in the testers.

Basically, what Mr. Dunphie and others who espouse these unsupported viewpoints want is weak Americans driving 500 point Shermans facing plucky and indestructable Germans driving hover tanks.

Well Mr. Dunphie, rather than blow hot wind, present a well reasoned argument to back up anything you said supported by evidence and a new model for considering the issue, and maybe you would be listened to. Otherwise I put zero trust in you -- especially with the paucity of personal information offered.

Not to say I am mad, or even heated up a little, I just think that you are a child lighting fire crackers. I doubt you have written any books, and I suspect you are another member of the board trying to throw a bomb.

[Vanir Ausf B]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrew Hedges:

Observe the registration date and number of posts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, and I doubt we'll ever see post #2.

Rereading his post, I now get the distinct impression that Mr. Dunphie has never actually played CM. I doubt he even ownes the game. Notice how he doesn't say anything about the game except what he has gleaned from the forum? Is there anyone who has actually played CM who would say that rifle grenades represent an "impressive tank killing capacity"?

Kind of embarrasing for a published author, assuming its not an imposter (a real possibility).

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ]

[Ales Dvorak]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C Dunphie:

in this occasionally interesting forum

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: C Dunphie ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

General (Max)?

[Slapdragon]

Here is another problem. He zeroes in on gyros, but although tankers did disable them, most left them in place. The worst problem was getting them fixed if they broke. They were only unreliable in the earliest years. This is so glaring from tank interviews that if it were the real Dunphie then I would immediatetly suspect all other of Dunphie's work for drawing conclusions from few or no real interviews.

More likely, on the subject -- especially since the last gyro discussion was a couple of weeks ago, this is someone familiar with the board.

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Commissar:

Heck, I would be surprised if you even own CM and thus able to validly support your "pro US" claims in this game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, I bet that ain't too far off from the truth.

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ales Dvorak:

General (Max)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You called?

Hey someone on this board has to keep it interesting. You can only get so much joy out of "Why can't MG crews run?" threads.

Throw in a little politics, religion, and law, and then you have something worth discussing.

[Ales Dvorak]

[Andrew H.]

The more one looks at Mr "Dunphie's" post, the more suspicious it appears.

Look at this sentence:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Oh and another thing; all the US tank crews I spoke too (NW Europe) insisted they disabled the gyroscopes on their weapons as they proved so defective. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems like someone who had written a book on WWII armor would understand the difference between gyroscopes and gyrostabilizers.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Dear me, how could those appalling political systems of 1940's Germany and Russia have come up with such weapon systems as the Tiger, Panther and T34, I wonder! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is sort of a weird sentence because the T-34 is not in CMBO. Maybe he really hasn't played the game.

[bfamily33]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C Dunphie:

In the course of writing my books ...

all the US tank crews I spoke TOO ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For a writer, he sure does butcher the english language. I'd suggest he study at Harvard and not Oxford

[YECoyote]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B:

I'm starting to think the same thing. He was likely just trolling to see what reaction he would get, maybe get an entertaining flame war going for his own amusement. I doubt he even believes what he wrote.

[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

doesn't his silence since his original post speaks louder than any other hooplas he has caused?

About the faust being better than Rifle grenades. I have not played the allied much, but I can tell you the Faust is indeed a very good tank killer. Especially if the tank is stupid enough to close in too close. Many allied tanks have fallen victim to my Faust equipped FJ.

[Clubfoot]

Hmmm, some fascinating replies. Mayhap I should return to the original post and read it. I shamefully admit that, confronted with the needlessly self agrandizing "In the course of writing my lofty and ill-researched dross I blah blah blah..." statement, I went goo-goo eyed, spurted a gallon of drool, and headed to the general forum to start a "Britney Spear's boobs" thread in an attempt revive the borderless, QUASI-intellectual yet tastelessly low-brow nature of the board.

Have you ever felt embarrassed for another?

Ah well, let's not be too harsh on the guy. We're all guilty of taking ourselves too seriously upon occasion (although rarely climbing to these heights of WAY, WAY, WAY too seriously). Oh... sorry. To maintain the proper form set forth by our esteemed colleague and author, I should append the above to read "WAY, WAY, WAY two seriously."

[Joe Shaw]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It seems like someone who had written a book on WWII armor would understand the difference between gyroscopes and gyrostabilizers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well ... sometimes. I remember that the second Tom Brokaw book quoted someone who purported to be a B-24 pilot and he referred to "...50mm shell casings hip deep in the cabin..." and "... we had the P-38 {do something or other, I forget exactly} because we had better sonar than they did...", you'd think a B-24 veteran would know the differences but ...

Joe

[Bruno Weiss]

Maybe his Asian made technologically superior keyboard failed.

Actually, rarely do I take such a stance, but seeing some of the statements as to the technological edge or superiority belonging to Germany and only a quantitative advantage belonging to the US, I can only imagine that the authors are referring to the more specific spectrum of ground combat, and mostly that of armor and infantry weapon systems.

Such statements do not take into account the vast technological superiority of the US in anti-submarine warfare, communications intelligence in code breaking and monitoring, aircraft and airial combat tactics and technologies, electronic systems such as radar, sonar, and torpedo (TDC) systems, optical systems such as the Norton bombsight, and overall Naval superiority both in terms of ship capabilities and onboard weapons and weapons control systems. Not to mention, the general technology that it took to convert almost overnight, a commercial industrial base into a vast military production the likes of which has never been seen before or since. Besides, the Germans had nothing on a technological par equal to the most treasured military item of all, the P38 can opener.

In as much as I'm one of those players who prefers the German side (Uberplayer? Poo, just like their toys), it is generally out of character that I wave the flag, but frankly in proper context one must consider that as nice as something like the Panther is in a game like CM, and regardless of the fact that its technological design was infact of superior quality to competitors in the same class, the overall Panther reliability was something on a par of piss poor. Very prone to mechanical failure in its power plant and suspension systems. As pretty as it might look, once it breaks down it is little more than a stationary pillbox awaiting destruction. In the game, infact in most all games, such weapons are really neat, but in real life mechanical failure rates show a different story.

One could take each of the German weapons systems and do some sort of analysis, but essentially their Luftwaffe was never designed for the mission it was handed after 1940, its aircraft were outdated after 1941, (breakthroughs like the ME-262 and AR-234 were offset by the same mechanical reliability problems as the Panther), the German Kriegsmarine while valiant, was never the less outclassed by the Royal Navy, and the US Navy both in terms of the quality of ships, the combat tactics employed, and the onboard technology deployed.

As the gentlemen pointed out, we are all great opinionators on this here forum, so this is my opinion. Each nation involved in WWII had certain positives wherein they enjoyed some edge if you will, with regard to a particular weapon, or weapon system. But as romantically attractive as it might be for some to think otherwise, the Germans simply did not have technological superiority in sufficient numerical quantities of systems with which to compete in the combat environment which they chose to enter into. Not to mention, that their command and control systems, or organizational processes were so antiquated and prone to political influence, petty infighting, and political incompetancy as to render even the most technologically superior system nearly worthless in its combat environmental deployment. The U-Boats come to mind, the pocket battleships, the ME-262 and most of the jets, the Condor, the V1's and V2's, and on a larger scale, two further examples would be that of the DAK in North Africa, and the 6th Army at Stalingrad. True, command and control systems are not necessarily pure technology, but the Germans and the Japanese did not break the US communications codes, it was the other way around, and what is more, for nearly the entire duration of the war the UK and the US were monitoring Axis communications in near real time or actual real time to the point of decoding the messages faster than the Germans and Japanese could.

I can think of nothing more technologically superior or more damaging to the enemy than if Adolph had simply telephoned Churchill and Roosevelt and told them his every plan in infinate detail prior to disseminating it to his own commanders.

Besides, I kinda like democracy. It ain't perfect, but it sure beats having some dimwit tell everyone what do to without the option to send them off into obscurity every four years.

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Bruno Weiss ]

[Gyrene]

Hell, I think the whole thing is a sham and should be re-written! Evil Evil Americans!

Anyway...What were we talking about?

Gyrene

[Gen. Sosaboski]

(Snore)

(Wakes Up) Huh? Debate? Long live the Poles!

Come on people, everyone has weaknesses and strengths in this game. I'm an American, and yes, I do find it disappointing that more Allied SMGs are not found, along with Armored Inf., but hey, that's life.

Can't we all just get along?

[Mark IV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C Dunphie:

The game seems to change and evolve as 'causes' take hold and gather momentum resulting in the latest 'patch'.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Must be perfect now, since there hasn't been a patch since February. The troll obviously did not read the Readme text.

Vanir posted an accounting of the "side" oriented patch items, but a full reading of the release notes leaves little doubt that the chief beneficiary of most patch items was the AI. Apparently he has the most influential lobby....

[Brian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruno Weiss:

but the Germans and the Japanese did not break the US communications codes, it was the other way around, and what is more, for nearly the entire duration of the war the UK and the US were monitoring Axis communications in near real time or actual real time to the point of decoding the messages faster than the Germans and Japanese could.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*SIGH* I do wish people would read the history. The Germans and the Japanese and yes, even the Italians were quite adept at breaking and reading Allied codes. Indeed, most of the the successes which are attributed to Rommel in the Western Desert were actually more because of

1) Poor signals discipline amongst the British forces who used to send tactical messages "en claire" often attempting to make use of clumsy, and very obvious, personal codes to describe unit deployments and positions.

2) The breaking/theft (now usually considered the latter and attributed to the Italian intelligence service, interesting) of the US Consulate "Black Code" used by the US Consul in Cairo to send daily reports to Washington of British briefings he recieved from the British command HQ to keep him abreast of events. As a consequence daily troop returns were well known to Rommel throughout most of his battles.

3) Rommel's possession of an extremely highly trained and well equipped Radio Intercept service which allowed him not only to tap into 1) above but also to intercept and read the aforementioned Black Code messages. When this unit was captured by the Australian 9 Division at Tel El Arisa during first El Alamein Rommel's "brilliant" generalship suffered a marked decline.

Other examples of the Germans breaking Allied codes were the Kriegsmarine breaking RN codes in 1940 and 1941. The Abwer and the Gestapo also broke a number of SIS/MI6 codes, as well as those used by the Resistence, etc.

The Japanese broke several American codes during the course of the war but were unable to crack the highest level ones.

Where the Allies excelled was that they managed to break the one "unbreakable" cypher/code that the Germans and the Japanese relied upon for the ultimate direction of the war. Something the Axis forces never achieved, but they did have their successes in the area of "Operational" level codes.

I can think of nothing more technologically superior or more damaging to the enemy than if Adolph had simply telephoned Churchill and Roosevelt and told them his every plan in infinate detail prior to disseminating it to his own commanders.

[MrSpkr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom:

the US just sat on their a$$'$ while the UK/Commonwealth fought Hitler for 3 years.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We did not! It was two years, three months, thank-you-very-much!

[Vanir Ausf B]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV:

Vanir posted an accounting of the "side" oriented patch items, but a full reading of the release notes leaves little doubt that the chief beneficiary of most patch items was the AI. Apparently he has the most influential lobby....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'Tis true.

I now feel a bit chagrined at having wasted my time compiling the list in response to what I can clearly see now was troll bait. Oh well.

[Andreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KwazyDog:

I would also ask people to remember that things are not always what they seem on the internet. Other than the posters comments we have no way to be sure that he is indeed whom he claims to be (especially considering he has given us no email address), so lets not draw any conclusions on the books mentioned above too quickly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean to tell me that the guy who registered as the Ozzie PM might not be him? Shurely not! Who would do such a thing???

[Kwazydog]

Hehe, our PM has enough problems at the moment so no, it probably wouldnt be

Dan

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]