Ricochet Posted December 8, 2000 Share Posted December 8, 2000 I've just loaded a quick battle and the Churchill AVRE had no HE ammunition just 25 hollow charge's ©. I reloaded another QB with 10 AVRE's and they all had 25 hollow charges and no HE. Is this normal? What does AVRE mean? I'm running v1.05 by the way. I did a search on the web and I had no idea that it was an external loaded mortar. The co-driver had a sliding hatch in which to pop up/out and reload. Great Photo's: http://freespace.virgin.net/chris.shillito/a22new/avre/avre.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted December 8, 2000 Share Posted December 8, 2000 Ricochet, It's normal for CM AVRE's to have only © ammo. Don't know what AVRE stands for, sorry. ------------------ Der ver zwei peanuts, valking down der Strasse, and von vas...assaulted! peanut. Ho-ho-ho-ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted December 8, 2000 Share Posted December 8, 2000 Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers ------------------ Andreas <a href="http://www.geocities.com/greg_mudry/sturm.html">Der Kessel</a > Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 12-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted December 8, 2000 Share Posted December 8, 2000 I wonder why they didn't have HE for it. I know I'd love to have a tank with a shot blast of 500 or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted December 8, 2000 Share Posted December 8, 2000 Because it didn't fire shells it fired a special mortar bomb. -john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodlebug Posted December 8, 2000 Share Posted December 8, 2000 AVRE stands for Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers.Strangly I've never played with one of these but I am rather surprised to hear no HE shells are supplied as standard.Given the explanation of AVRE it gives a clue as to the usage of this vehicle. It had a Petard mortar hurling a not insignificant 40lb HE charge to the detriment of any building, pillbox, person or vehicle in it's way. Given that a charge this large is fairly devastating on arrival I can only surmise they've categorised it as a Hollow Charge to recreate it's effect against heavy structures or armoured targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted December 9, 2000 Share Posted December 9, 2000 Next time you select one, try USING it! For goodness sake, just 3 minutes in the game teaches you that whether there's a C an A, a bloody STFU after the 25, this thing launches a huge frick'n mortar that will splatter anything it lands on. Try research man PeterNZ ------------------ "I can be quite pleasant, you know" - Andreas "WHERE'S THE MOAT?!" - Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted December 9, 2000 Author Share Posted December 9, 2000 Sorry Peter I should have been more specific. All I loaded was one of every British vehicle to see what the specs were and what they looked like, not to play the game. Tonight I'll play a battle and see what's what. Thanks everybody for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted December 9, 2000 Share Posted December 9, 2000 Oddly, the AVRE refuses to fire at the side of a pillbox, giving the odds of kill as 'None' (the same as other vehicles in the game). You can try manually targeting the pillbox, but at the beginning of the turn, the AI simply cancels the order. Also, it even tries to flee from the side of the pillbox (even though it's in no danger) by popping smoke and moving. If this vehicle is forced to attack a pillbox from the front to even take a shot at it, it likely won't be able to get within 250m (it's max range) unless it's going up against a pillbox MG. Or drives around the back. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted December 9, 2000 Author Share Posted December 9, 2000 Well I did some frick'n research and I've pasted some of the results here. I still have a question or two about the AVRE. I doubt this but I have to ask, since the Co-Driver has to pop out of a hatch to reload (not the best job to have), is it possible in CM to kill or wound him making it impossible for AVRE to reload? Should something like that be modeled in the game. How's that for an extreme detail. One of the main British tanks of the Second World War was the Churchill, named after Britain's wartime leader. The tank was developed as an 'Infantry' tank, in line with the then current British doctrine on armoured vehicles. The Churchill was used as the basis for a series of specialist assault vehicles, designed for the liberation of North West Europe. The main was the 'Churchill Assault Vehicle Royal Engineers', commonly known as the AVRE. These vehicles were used by the 79th Armoured Division. There were around 700 Churchill AVREs built, mainly by MG Cars Ltd. at Abingdon, converted from Churchill IIs and IVs, the first 108 were converted in the REME's (Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers) own workshops. (I prefered the MGB ) I found this site dedicated to weapons used during Market-Garden. Churchill AVRE After a disastrous debut during the British raid on Dieppe (August 1942), where the steep shingle beach imobilized them, the Churchill series of infantry tanks proved to be very successful. The six Mark IIIs that took part at El Alamein (October 1942) shrugged off German antitank fire and proved quite hardy under desert conditions. Eleven different Marks of the Churchill were produced. Within each Mark were any number of variants. Some were mounted with antiaircraft guns, others with howitzers, and still others with dozer blades. The Mark VII featured thicker armor, a heavier turret, and stronger suspension and used the latest 75-millimeter gun. The Building Buster variant was intended for close-quarters street fighting -one shot could remove the front of a multistory building or flatten a house. Churchill ARVE: Armored Vehicle Royal Engineers. A Petard 29cm caliber mortar was fitted to turret. Fired 40lb bomb 80 yards. 180 available by D-Day. 1st Assault Brigade of 79th Armored Division. 574 more were converted. Some were equipped to carry fascines and CIRD for mine-clearing. I couldn't find much about the mortar itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted December 9, 2000 Share Posted December 9, 2000 Does anyone think that Churchill AVREs are worth buying?? I had one in a PBEM game that won a draw for me, but then I was facing a massed infantry attack with NO tank support. I think people are better off with a standard tank, since infantry are pinned whatever size of ammo they are facing, 75mm or 290mm. ------------------ Great Quotes Maximus: "And what's that Rob? The rest of the world doesn't care? I can assure you that when Boris Yeltsin stepped down in Russia last New Years, the world cared. Oh wait, you live in Canada. That's right, Canada only cares 'aboot' Canada. The whole world could be on the brink of destruction and as long as Canadian soil isn't involved, they could care less. Does the phrase, "Isolationist China" mean anything to ya?" Rob/1: "Lets just say I dont like americans ok... if you have a prolbem with that Minumis is one of the resions." jshandorf: "Suck" jshandorf: "How about Stephen Hawkins! Yeah! I would kick his skinny, whellchair ass any day of the week! Bring it on roller boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Posted December 9, 2000 Share Posted December 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. Bates: Does anyone think that Churchill AVREs are worth buying??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't. I used one once and all it did was shoot its machine gun because it couldn't get close enough to fire its mortar. Its very short range limits its usefulness too much. The only place it may be nice to have is in an urban combat area. ------------------ You mean my Java coded Real Time Bar Fight Simulator Madmatt Mission: Beyond BiteMe ISN'T going to be published?!? Madmatt [This message has been edited by Vanir (edited 12-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted December 9, 2000 Share Posted December 9, 2000 Wolfe, the oddity with targeting pillbox/bunker sides is known by BTS. I think they're trying to work on it. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted December 9, 2000 Share Posted December 9, 2000 They have their uses. Ahistorical as hell, but in restricted terrain they are lethal against those big ugly german supertanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted December 9, 2000 Share Posted December 9, 2000 I just tried them out for the first time, solo. I wasn't impressed. No doubt they can squish any German tank out there, but their performance against buildings was unimpressive. I would have figured a 290mm mortar would flatten all but the heaviest buildings, but even light buildings took many hits. I won't be rushing out to purchase any soon. ------------------ I remember it perfectly: The Germans wore grey; you wore blue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted December 9, 2000 Share Posted December 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I just tried them out for the first time, solo. I wasn't impressed. No doubt they can squish any German tank out there, but their performance against buildings was unimpressive. I would have figured a 290mm mortar would flatten all but the heaviest buildings, but even light buildings took many hits. I won't be rushing out to purchase any soon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's interesting, I have found their anti-buildings fire to be most effective. A light building will be destroyed very quickly. I would have thought that the AVRE was terrible against enemy tanks, given the slowness of fire. ------------------ Great Quotes Maximus: "And what's that Rob? The rest of the world doesn't care? I can assure you that when Boris Yeltsin stepped down in Russia last New Years, the world cared. Oh wait, you live in Canada. That's right, Canada only cares 'aboot' Canada. The whole world could be on the brink of destruction and as long as Canadian soil isn't involved, they could care less. Does the phrase, "Isolationist China" mean anything to ya?" Rob/1: "Lets just say I dont like americans ok... if you have a prolbem with that Minumis is one of the resions." jshandorf: "Suck" jshandorf: "How about Stephen Hawkins! Yeah! I would kick his skinny, whellchair ass any day of the week! Bring it on roller boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted December 9, 2000 Share Posted December 9, 2000 If you're asking me, I think the blast is too small, and the rate of fire too high. It can't flatten a house with a single blast as advertised. And you'd think loading such a huge mortar would take some time. But nobody's asking me! Why not? Because I don't know nothin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: But nobody's asking me! Why not? Because I don't know nothin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I see nothink, I hear nothink.... we'll have to start calling you Sargeant Schultz if you keep those statements up! Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 The Churchill AVRE was actually designed from the get-go to be able to take the front off of a house in a single shot but until BTS has more realistic building damage that won't happen. ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! A major source of Wild Bill scenarios! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curih Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 If you're feeling sadistic, Churchill AVRE's versus Volkstrum in a town can be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 No, sadistic is Churchill AVREs and Crocodiles vs Volksturm in a town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Fox: No, sadistic is Churchill AVREs and Crocodiles vs Volksturm in a town.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, the VS have too many Panzerschrecks. I've done a scenario with AVREs and Crocs against Volksgrenadiers, that have much fewer Schreck teams... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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