The WORST war movie.

[jshandorf]

Hey, All.

Last week I started a thread on the best war movie and in reading that thread I occasionally saw some grumbling about this movie sucking or that movie biting a-s SO I thought I would start a thread where this pent up anger can be vented.

Personally the movie that really made me sick was that recent submarine movie, what was it called, U-251?? God, I tried to erase the memory of THAT movie from my head. How completely inaccurate and wholly unrealistic. I won't go into details because anyone who has seen the movie should know what I am talking about. Ugh.

Jeff

[This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 10-16-2000).]

[PeterNZer]

I dunno... last half hour of Saving Private Ryan kinda ticked me off.

After the amazing opening, you return to the old cliche of the religious sniper, the farm boy, the pacifist medic.. the silent, stoic captain.. *sigh*. The germans should have used more flames on them, the cardboard cutouts would have been easy to take down then.

PeterNZ

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hamsters Wrote:

PeterNZ: He hasn’t proven to be particularly valiant but I think he’d make a good doorman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Chupacabra]

The Vietnam movie with Michael J. Fox and Sean Penn would be up there. That piece of suck opened up strange new dimensions of suck to wallow in.

Also, the D-Day movie with Mark Hamill. See above comments RE: suck.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[Croda]

The Big Red 1? Suck? I think the beating I'm dishing out to you is affecting your ability to discern quality from garbage. The Big Red 1 is fantastic, unless there is another Mark Hammil WWII movie.

As far as I'm concerned, they're isn't a bad war movie, as they're all better than Driving Miss Daisy or some other chick-flick. I can even sit through The Thin Red Line if I have to, and that was a painful bore.

The Big Red 1 sucked....I'm going to step up the level of beating that I'm administering you for that comment.

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"Nuts!"

[jshandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeterNZer:

I dunno... last half hour of Saving Private Ryan kinda ticked me off.

After the amazing opening, you return to the old cliche of the religious sniper, the farm boy, the pacifist medic.. the silent, stoic captain.. *sigh*. The Germans should have used more flames on them, the cardboard cutouts would have been easy to take down then.

PeterNZ

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PeterNZ,

Yeah, gotta agree with ya there. Also the fact that the sniper identified two of the approaching tanks as Panzers, or was it Panthers?, either way those other two tanks actually looked like Marders. Open topped, TDs. What they hell would you be doing attacking infantry close quarters with TDs? Also that comment from Pvt. Ryan after the Tiger gets blown up my the P-51. He called the P-51 a tank buster. What?? I don't think there was ever a P-51 made for the dedicated role of tank busting, not that they couldn't mind you. Also the P-51 hit that Tiger with at least a 250 pound bomb. I would imagine that bomb doing a little more damage then just killing the tank. Like killing Germans and Americans nearby and possibly damaging the bridge.

Regardless, that whole battle at the end there seemed pretty dumb to me. Why did the German's just march right down the street when they KNEW that there were American infantry at the bridge? Hell, I would have had my men going hose to house with the Tigers backing them up so when they located an enemy strong point I would have the Tiger blast them to hell.

Just my rant.

Jeff

[PeterNZer]

I guess I was disapointed.. the first half hour was so realistic. Death happened, didn't matter who you were, one minute you're alive, the next minute you're splattered across the beach.. The second half was just cheesy.. loose the main characters one by one.. all the standard stuff from war movies.

PeterNZ

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hamsters Wrote:

PeterNZ: He hasn’t proven to be particularly valiant but I think he’d make a good doorman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Croda]

Comments on Pvt Ryan:

Welcome to Hollywood. The problem is that if Spielberg (or any other director for that matter) set out to make a film that was true to war then they would find no funding as the audience would be very small compared to the general movie-going populace.

A scene that had the Germans going house to house coming down the street would have been difficult to film, and difficult to understand when watching. Movie-goers want to get what they came for, or else the movie will get reviewed harshly and no one else goes to see it. That's commercialism. While I agree that the film after the invasion scene could have used an extra dose of realism, the fact remains that most people would not want to see that, making it very difficult for a film-maker to make that film. As it is, the movie remains one of, if not the best and most realistic film about war to date.

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"Nuts!"

[jshandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Croda:

Comments on Pvt Ryan:

Welcome to Hollywood. The problem is that if Spielberg (or any other director for that matter) set out to make a film that was true to war then they would find no funding as the audience would be very small compared to the general movie-going populace.

A scene that had the Germans going house to house coming down the street would have been difficult to film, and difficult to understand when watching. Movie-goers want to get what they came for, or else the movie will get reviewed harshly and no one else goes to see it. That's commercialism. While I agree that the film after the invasion scene could have used an extra dose of realism, the fact remains that most people would not want to see that, making it very difficult for a film-maker to make that film. As it is, the movie remains one of, if not the best and most realistic film about war to date.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Compared to other war movies it has to be one of the best. I just get POed when little things don't make sense within the movie. If they could just change it a little bit here and there they could make it almost perfect. Sigh...

Jeff

[IntelWeenie]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf:

What?? I don't think there was ever a P-51 made for the dedicated role of tank busting, not that they couldn't mind you. Jeff<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there was an early version of the P-51 called the A-36 Apache that was a dedicated ground attack A/C. IIRC, it wasn't used in NW Europe, though.

I was just disappointed in the whole premise of the "Saving Private Ryan" mission. Gee, why couldn't they have based the film on a real D-day story??

My vote for worst (recent) war movie is Three Kings.

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Cats aren't clean, they're covered with cat spit.

[Snake Eyes]

The last half of 'Apocalypse Now'. That was just plain weird. The first half was weird too, but reasonably accurate.

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It is easy to be brave from a safe distance. -Aesop

[Chupacabra]

While I'm thinking about it -

The Green Berets. For the love of God, Duke, you're old and fat and you have one lung, you don't look like a freaking commando.

Additional points of suck:

1) I never knew Vietnam looked so much like California! Damn, I gotta visit. I mean seriously, folks, at least haul your Hollywood asses down to Costa Rica or something, at least they've got jungle there.

2) Ummm... I'm sorry, I missed the overt American West symbolism, could you shovel in a little more? Thanks Mr. Wayne, that's just right. Now let's go kill some Indians! Er, I mean Vietnamese!

3) Usually movies which use ketchup as blood are filmed on Dad's Super-8, and are mercifully lost in the attic three days after they're made.

4) Those Vietnamese were clever bastards! They not only dug pungi pits and such, they devised evil-scientist-style spike traps which spring out at the unwary. Apparently the jungle-vine technology field has made rapid advances.

5) Repeat after me: Mr. Sulu is not a convincing Montagnard.

6) And of course, there's the famous scene of the sun setting over the East China Sea.

Therefore, I have revised my previous List O' Suck. While I firmly believe that my 2 aforementioned movies suck heartily, in my opinion, The Green Berets is the worst war movie ever made.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[Hiram Sedai]

my vote goes to "The Last Unicorn" All those songs by America were depressing.

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Did someone compare this to the Peng thread? I've apologized for less.

-Anonymous

[Airborne]

Worst for me:

Big Red One

Battle of the Bulge

Thin Red Line (and I read the book)

U-571 (true Hollywood)

The Clint E movie about Grenada

Parts of SPR

Fireball Forward

edit: Hated Memphis Belle

-still love 12 o'clock High.

Deja Vu? I did this a couple months ago.

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Land Soft--Kill Quiet

[This message has been edited by Airborne (edited 10-17-2000).]

[Airborne]

Actually, I think the Green Berets was filmed in Georgia and Alabama. I liked the beginning sequences at Ft. Benning (nostalgia) but, agreeably, it was bad.

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Land Soft--Kill Quiet

[Mr. Clark]

First time I watched Private Ryan, I only liked the beginning. After purchasing CM I went back and watched it again... now I'm rather fond of the whole thing.

Also, as far as the house to house thing... juts put it down to bad commanding if it makes you feel better. I remember one of the battles described in "Blood-Dimmed Tide", the Germans were commanded poorly on the attack, so just sent wave after wave after wave after wave of troops over open ground at dug in defenders until the bodies were piled 3 or 4 deep everywhere.

Back to the topic... worst war movie bar none... Battlefield Scientology! ... er... uh.. Battlefield Earth!

It was AMAZING how that old Earth military hardware was perfectly intact after ONE THOUSAND years... AND capable of defeating an alien army the SECOND time around when used by people piloting it for the first time, when it could not be used to win by TRAINED military personel the FIRST TIME AROUND!!! AAAAHHHH!!! I HATE IT!!!!!!

Okay... better... now...

EDIT: I also have to agree with Snake Eyes. Despite popular opinion, I think Apocolypse Now sux the big one. It consistently gets worse and worse until the VERY end which would have been good except... he has spent God knows how long wandering around right next to the target, and then for some lame reason paints himself up and stealths it back IN to kill him instead of doing it while he's RIGHT THERE!!!

[This message has been edited by Mr. Clark (edited 10-16-2000).]

[Daveman]

I'd have to say the second half of Full Metal Jacket, I kept wishing they'd go back to boot camp.

Pity too, since it was refreshing to see a Vietnam movie out of the jungle.

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“Thus, the M4A3E8(76)W designation meant a tank with an official Mortality of 4 minutes, Actually 3 minutes, cost Extra, and had a 76% chance of going WHOOSH." - Bullethead

[jshandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Clark:

Also, as far as the house to house thing... juts put it down to bad commanding if it makes you feel better. I remember one of the battles described in "Blood-Dimmed Tide", the Germans were commanded poorly on the attack, so just sent wave after wave after wave after wave of troops over open ground at dug in defenders until the bodies were piled 3 or 4 deep everywhere.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but that is my problem I guess. In almost every war movie I have seen the Germans always use "bad" tactics and get there butts kicked. For once I would just like to see them do the smart thing. They can still lose but just not the same cliched way all the time.

Jeff

[coe]

hmm, well even the Germans did some human wave like attacks when the situation was necessary but I agree about Saving Private

Ryan:

A.) As a history professor friend of mine said, "after the first 30 minutes the Germans started to line up and get conveniently machine-gunned."

B.) Last battle: German assault in broad daylight? you mean those fighter-bombers weren't on them from the very beginning (I didn't notice too much haze in the sky).

C.) The funniest part of the battle was when the German soldier runs straight into the canal.

D.) Hmmm, 2nd SS Panzer Division at Ramel or whatever it was at D+6? With the tanks? I didn't know that 2nd SS Pz Div had Tigers in its June 1944 battle order (ok ok, it might have been a mixed combat group but even Michael Wittman's heavy battalion didn't arrive by then.

I did like a Thin Red Line in that there were no major heros who really survive to the end or die dramatically fending off a rabid beast, it brought out that anybody could go at any time (I like also how it mixed the ugliness of war on what is an inherently beautiful place).

[Chupacabra]

While we're talking about Saving Private Ryan, I'll chime in with my personal view.

The movie sucked.

Take every war movie you've ever seen. Now cram them all into one 90-minute package.

"But shouldn't we take out these cliches, Mr. Spielberg?"

"No, you fool! The cliches must STAAAAAAAY!!! STAAAAAAAY!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!"

I'll give you the beach landings. That scene was the most shocking depiction of combat I've ever seen. The movie should've ended right there, though.

But, like the other folks have said, where did they dig up all the stereotypes? "Hey, let's stick in a wisecracking Jew!" "OOH, yeah, and how about a streetwise guy from Brooklyn?" "That's money, baby, money!"

My feeling is, if you've ever seen a war movie, you've seen SPR. Everything that happens past the beach landings is pure cliche. Oh, yeah, here's the sniper. Oh, yeah, here's the machine gun nest. Like one of the characters said (probably the Brooklynite, that boy had a mouth on him!) "Why can't we go around the machine gun?" Forget what they say in the movie, the real answer is "because the formula calls for another character to die in a moving way. Plus we get to setup the evil German character, oh boy!"

SPR's worth watching for the first 15 minutes, after that, bleh.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[Guest dirkd1976]

I just read today that they are going to re-release Apocalypse Now with an additional 50 minutes of footage. Heres the link: http://www.darkhorizons.com/news.htm

You have to scroll down to the bottom of the page to find the info on it. I knew this was going to happen. The Exorcist comes out with new footage and does well in the theaters, and now every director and studio out there is going to look back at all their past movies and say "How can I make more money off this." I think its fine to re-release a movie with new footage IF IT'S GOOD, AND ACTUALLY ADDS TO THE MOVIE. I have a feeling we are going to see a lot more of this crap in the near future. I like Apocalypse Now just how it is.....LEAVE IT ALONE!! Just my 2 cents.

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Never mistake motion for action - Ernest Hemingway

[Chupacabra]

It could be worse. They could re-release Apocalypse Now with Anne Heche as Colonel Kurtz.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[Major Tom]

I actually didn't mind SPR until the VERY end, you know, when the cavlary arrived in time?

I could look past the hollow characters, I could ignore the poor German tactics, but, I cannot believe that the US army arrived at the bridge right on time, with air cover at the very moment the infantry entered the town, and the P-51 hitting that tank square on. It ruiened any semblence of reality.

P-51's were constantly used on the ground support role, but, with dire consequences for its pilot. Most of the P-51's sent on this role were shot down due to their radial engine getting shot to pieces by Flak. It was a dumb idea when there were plenty of P-47's to do that job.

The problem is, is, that all of these directors think that their audiences are dribling morons and will only buy into certain formulas. This is what was wrong with SPR, as well as Star Wars 1. Movie directors and producers expect every film that they make has to bust the 100 million dollar mark and they feel that only big-name stars and simplistic plots will do it. Give me a deep plot and a no name actor anyday!

My worst liked war movies...

Tough choice...

I can tell you what I don't do not like!

I liked

Big Red 1 (It was pretty faithful to its theme)

Apocalypse Now (Even though it is dated it still makes for a great philosophical outlook on war)

Cross of Iron (Enjoyable all around)

Kelly's Hero's (More of a comedy than deep war movie)

I actually didn't mind a Thin Red Line. Its action scenes were better than that of SPR on average, but, it lost out to a confusing plot.

I guess the main war movies that I don't like have to deal with those that profess the most lies. Many US propaganda war movies were just horrible for accuracy. They portrayed the US soldier as either a tough veteran or an insecure child who said jee and golly a lot.

[jshandorf]

Now I remember a scene that really made me laugh in A Thin Red Line.

Remember when Captain Dipstick (played by Woody Harrelson) reaches for his grenade and some how accidentally pulls the pin. Now the grenade is attached to his belt by the spoon looping through the belt. Obviously he can't get it off and it blows up. LOL! Tell me HOW can a grenade's fuse light without the spoon coming off the grenade??

How utterly stupid and comical.

Jeff

[Chupacabra]

Oh, do the Iron Eagle movies count as war movies? Because those are right up there. Basically, any movie with Lou Gossett Jr. you can pretty much assume is going to be more fun than losing teeth. But not by much.

Especially Iron Eagles (2?), the one where the WW2 planes were suddenly INCREDIBLY BADASS!!! and could blow the hell out of a modern country. I'm sorry, but I don't care what pissant drug-financed banana republic I'm from, if I ever see Lou Gossett Jr coming at me in a P-47, I'm going to take my Chinese surplus AKM and blow his bad-movie-making ass out of the sky.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[jshandorf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom:

P-51's were constantly used on the ground support role, but, with dire consequences for its pilot. Most of the P-51's sent on this role were shot down due to their radial engine getting shot to pieces by Flak. It was a dumb idea when there were plenty of P-47's to do that job.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom,

Actually all production models of the P-51 had an in-line V-12 liquid cooled engine. The P-51A had an liquid cooled Allison V-12 and all subsequent models then went to the Rolls Royce Merlin 68 V-12, which was by far better.

The P-47 Thunderbolt had a radial engine. The benefit being that they are reliable and VERY durable.

Jeff