High cost of CM for non-US residents

[DOG]

I am just wondering if any one else (particularly those of us not living in the US) thinks the cost of CM is a little on the steep side.

True, the game is a masterpiece, but it still is expensive. When I got my copy 3 months ago, it cost me over $90 Australian.

With a lot of currencies in free fall, buying anything from the US is getting prohibitively expensive.

If you think about it, what do you get for the money? A User Manual (a good one), a CD and a two to three week delay in being able to play it.

What don’t you get? A convenient box to keep both CD and manual together and the convenience of being able to go into a store and buy it off the shelf. Most of this is not real important, but it is still cost that BTS don’t have to put into producing the game, which we are still paying for.

I don’t know what $45 US buys you, but I know what I can get for $95 AUS, and how long it takes to earn it. A typical new release in Australia is between $70 and $90. Yeah, a fair proportion of them are crap, but some of them are as good in their genre as CM is in its, and they are not as expensive as CM.

Seeing as BTS are getting a much higher proportion of the earnings then a regular publisher, do they have to put such a high price tag on it?

If our dollar keeps going in the direction its going, I might be able to export it to the US as a cheep alternative to toilet paper, and with the earnings I get, I may be able to go fifths with 4 others in purchasing CM2, if I start right now.

[Wanderer]

Just think how many hours enjoyment you will get from CM compared to how much your $90 would get you on anything else.

I have just ordered my copy and I calculate it will cost me around £30 (sterling-scottish money) Wich is well worth it.

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"I love it, God help me I do love it so"

[Diceman]

You get a priceless game concept made reality by thousands of dollars worth of meticulous research, talented programing, and great art work. Your share of the start up cost plus reasonable intrepenual reward $45 U.S.

Cheers

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Pair-O-Dice

"Once a Diceman, Always a Diceman."

[Aussie Smith]

DOG

Welcome to the world of Globalisation and Free Trade. Give it 6 months our dollar may make the glorious heights of 60 US cents again

The Canadians, Europeans (except Brits whose Pound is still somewhat regulated ) have the same prob. The US dollar is just strong atm - won't always be the case

Cheers

Craig

[This message has been edited by Aussie Smith (edited 09-13-2000).]

[Airborne]

One other thing you forgot to mention that you DO get--the best tactical wargame going--period. I'll bet many of the non-US folks that play (and live) this game would easily pay double the cost. I know I would, but then again, I'm U.S.

I don't worry about a CD box--it hasn't left my computer's drive since I got it.

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Land Soft--Kill Quiet

[fd ski]

Not whining - just putting things into perspective.

I recently visited my home country ( Poland ) and met some of my old schoolmates.

Average income for them was 150$/month.

This prabably explains low number ( just myself.. never seen anyone else ) of polish players in CM.

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[Lorak]

Dog,

I don't understand your complaint. So CM cost $90 dollars there. Then you say all your games there run $70-$90. Where is the problem? Its prince falls into the same range as all the other games. If your complaint is that it isn't in stores and you have to wait for shipping I can understand that. But that is the only point I see you've got.

Games in the US(new) run between $40-$60 dollars. CM with shipping is $53.

and who cares about a box?

Lorak

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"Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking."--William Butler Yeats

[Hundminen]

DOG

Ever think about value?

I have been computer gaming for 8 years now, and typically buying 5 games per year.

Since I discovered the CM Beta demo last November, I have bought only 1 game - CM. Yet I still manage to game about 10 hours a week, just as before.

Let's see, that makes CM worth about 5xUS$45=US$225.

And if that's what it cost, I'd still buy it!

So stop yer yelping

[Slapdragon]

One thing to remember about sales to some countries (Aussies may be in this boat) is that when currency takes a plunge, revenues can fall, so import tarrifs can creep up. I remember ordering something for my parents in Honduras and finding out that the tarrif for it was higher than the cost of the item. I am sure the same thing is true if you send a commercial product into the United States also.

[Jeff Heidman]

The simple answer is it costs what it costs because that is what BTS can sell them for.

If you think that is too expensive, your recourse is to refrain from sending them your hard earned money.

If, in fact, they are charging too much, then the market will let them know.

If, in fact, they are charging too little, they will quickly sell out and it wil become clear that they could increase their profit margin by increasing the cost.

Given the above facts, and given that the second has already happened, I would pay now...

Jeff Heidman

P.S. Note that I did not mention how much it costs them to produce CM in the above variables? That is because the factor is irrelevant to what they should charge for the game.

[Major Tom]

Usually after a game is out in Canada for a few months its price drastically drops. Sometimes you can get a GREAT game, in a compelation, for $20.00 Canadian. This usually happens when they overstock a really popular game, that doesn't quite meet the demand. Then they want to get rid of it, resulting in one lucky sod getting a cheap, and great product. Unfortunately for us, but fortunate for US residents, CM is shipped directly. However, since BTS knows that most of its customers are going to be from the US, they are doing the majority of their clients a benefit by doing it direct from supplier. Something that BTS should get credit for, even though we kind of lose out.

Jeremy

[rwwald]

Oh dear oh dear.The cost of CM is intangable?

Is that the word I want to use?

When I think of the rubbish I used to buy and now the rubbish I do not buy.CM has saved me a lot of money.

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Gramps

[Mace]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aussie Smith:

Give it 6 moths our dollar may make the glorious heights of 60 US cents again <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's that, Craig? Our $ (Aus) is worth 6 moths?

I remember the good old days when it was worth one sheep!

As for the current price of CM?

Money well spent IMHO!

The amount of entertainment you are going to get out of that one piece of software is worth far more than that price (btw, look in the shops, most new computer games are going for $90, and you don't get near the same amount of gameplay out of them)!

Mace

[This message has been edited by Mace (edited 09-13-2000).]

[Aussie Smith]

Rob (Mace)

No idea what you mean - my original post says nothing about Moths ... and sheep??? Are you sure your not a Country Victorian as opposed to a City Victorian

Plus I'm sure the going rate atm is $20 US dollars per sheep...hey wait - sell all our sheep to the US of A - end of debt hehe - so do I hear $21 for a good Aussie sheep going going.....

Craig

And its only a rumour I had a few beers at lunch

[GriffinCheng+]

Hello,

I live in Hong Kong and I think my cost of living is even higher than Australia. Normally, a US game costs HKD220-280 (convert to slightly less than USD40). So a game costs USD45 would be a tag higher than normal, not including the cost of shipping. Two things I think it really worth the price:

1. It is beyond doubt that this game is the best WW2 tactical game I play so far.

2. More important. It is so addictive so it saves you money from buying other games.

Griffin.

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"+" is just the beginning. Expect to see "GriffinCheng76", "GriffinCheng(105)" or "GriffinChengA3E8" more should Forum problems occur again

[BFCElvis]

I have paid for 3 copies of CM so far (one for me, my father and a friend). That's $159.00 US. I paid that much for dinner out the other night and it was through my system the next day. CM is still in my system. To me that is a deal.

I understand that you really aren't complaining about what the game is worth..just what it cost you. I would be willing to bet in 6 months from now you might post something here like "Wow, I can't believe how far I streched that $95 AUS. Best $95 I ever spent."

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"To conquer death you only have to die" JC

[DOG]

I appreciate the clobering gents.

Lorak

“Games in the US(new) run between $40-$60 dollars. CM with shipping is $53”

What sells for $60 US. That would make it about $110 Aus dollars, nothing in Aus costs that much (game software), maybe you guys are getting ripped off.

“and who cares about a box”

The point about the box was not so much about not having one, it was more a point to illistrate that production costs for this game would be less then those for something like Theif or a Ultima or any thing that did have a box

Hundminen

“Ever think about value?”

Sure do sun shine, a 911 porsche is good value, doesn’t stop it being expensive though does it?

“I have been computer gaming for 8 years now, and typically buying 5 games per year”

Well, Mine Dog (isn’t it?), ive been playing games for close to 15 years and I probably buy at least one a month (yes, I dont have a life), and as far as games go, CM is a great game, but it is not the greatest. It, like most computer games are bloody expensive.

“So stop yer yelping”

WOOF WOOF

Jeff Heidman

“If, in fact, they are charging too much, then the market will let them know”

Take your point, I presume the market will let them know by pirateing their games.

As a marketer, would you prefer to ship 20000 units at $30 or 10000 at $45 and have the differnce get pirated copies.

This is in no way condoning piracy, but after spending thousands of bucks on crap software, Iam getting a bit jaded over paying high prices for games.

Before receiving a follow up artillery bombardment from you all, CM is a great game. Pretty close to, if not the, best wargame ever. But as a game it is not the best computer game ever written (IMHO), but the amount we pay would suggest it is the best game you will ever play.

[Guest Big Time Software]

Yes, we are aware that the USD is really strong right now, just as I was PAINFULLY aware that it was crap about 10 years ago when I decided to travel around Europe.

When I was living in England I too complained and complained often about the prices of everything. Something that was labled a "sandwich" cost about $4.50 USD. In the US any place that even offered something as small and devoid of fillings would go out of business even if they charged $1 USD for it. Ah... but then we get into deeper cultural issues

My point is a product is based on the value and costs associated with its production. The fact that the average Pole makes $150 a week is sad, but it means nothing to us from a business standpoint. I mean, we can't offer special pricing for each country depending on their ability to pay and the value of their curency on a given day. Not only is it impractical, but it makes no sense business wise. It is the same reason why you can't by a Mercedes in Poland for $1000.

If you are only judging the value of CM based on the manual and CD, then you don't understand much about software. The costs of these things are small. The HUGE costs were our 3 years of developing the game without any other income worth mentioning. And THAT is what the majority of each sale goes towards.

Also note that although our profit margin is higher because we are using the Internet, our sales are about 1/20th to 1/30th of what they might be if we went through a publisher. And that publisher would most likely charge $45 USD anyway, so it is the same to the customer in the end.

And... a little known fact is that some countries' S&H costs us more than the $10 we charge. Australia is one of them

Steve

[aka_tom_w]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GriffinCheng+:

Hello,

2. More important. It is so addictive so it saves you money from buying other games.

Griffin.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now thats FUNNY

That almost sounds like woman logic that says it was a (whatever) red herring (somthing they didn't any way) but they bought it because it was "on sale" and they always say "Look how much money ) saved" because the red herring was "on sale".

Male chauvanism aside, that is a VERY funny way of rationalizing a $90.00 game purchase.

I LIKE IT!

cheers

-tom w

[sniperscope]

Sorry to hear about the high cost. But if the game had been Australian I would have saved my money and paid whatever it took to get it to the U.S. The game is simply that good. Dog there is even worse news!! CM2 is coming. Start saving your money.... I would.

sniperscope

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>When CM arrived, all other land based war games became crap.

sniperscope<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Guest Big Time Software]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As a marketer, would you prefer to ship 20000 units at $30 or 10000 at $45 and have the differnce get pirated copies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If we could get it in writing from every hacker and pirate downloader that they would not rip us off if the price were $30, then your point makes sense. But the reality is that pirates are pirates. They think that $0.01 is too much and therefore will steal it no matter what. Yes, I am sure that we do have a few more people pirating CM because of the strong dollar, but I doubt it is a significant number.

So the reality is that if we lower our price we lower our total revenues. And since CM is priced according to its worth, we feel perfectly fine keeping it at $45. In fact, if CM were priced according to how many hours people play it vs. the average game, we are practically giving it away.

Steve

[Guest Big Time Software]

Oh, I saw something else I needed to debunk

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The point about the box was not so much about not having one, it was more a point to illistrate that production costs for this game would be less then those for something like Theif or a Ultima or any thing that did have a box<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bet you a pile of AUDs that the cost of the box, manual, and CD for something like Thief is less than what we pay for a CD and manual. Why? Because they buy in HUGE quantities and have paper thin manuals. So your perception does not line up with reality.

Steve

[Aussie Smith]

Steve Steve Steve

Now you know full well a pile of AUD is worth well about as much as a pile of…well…AUD (or a couple of 3 ply American toilet paper rolls )....I dunno you excessively wealthy Americans have no idea about us poor downtrodden Aussies (remember the 80’s Steve – the $US couldn’t by a decent beer down here) - hehehe

Seriously I think $45US is well worth it mate - no complaints here - just keep up the high standards Steve - you'll always get my money.

All the Best

Craig

[DOG]

Wow, 3 responses from BTS within a couple of hours, I, am honored.

Touchy subject?

I am not a smart arse, but if a box and all the trimmings aren’t that expensive, why not include them. It would save me from loosing the bloody CD and manual every time my wife cleans up near the computer.

Just because you can make a crap load out of it, doesn’t make it right. OPEC seems to have the same mentality at the moment, and they are not the most popular of folk right now.

Ah well, when CM2 comes out, ill just have to sell the car and house and one of my kidneys to pay for it

[Supertanker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DOG:

“Games in the US(new) run between $40-$60 dollars. CM with shipping is $53”

What sells for $60 US. That would make it about $110 Aus dollars, nothing in Aus costs that much (game software), maybe you guys are getting ripped off.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Diablo II. When the big publishing houses know they have a sure hit, the shelf prices go up accordingly. The going rate at brick & mortar stores for Diablo II was $59.99. Anyone pay $40 for Opposing Force, the Half-life expansion disc? That wasn't even a full game, but it sure was priced like one! Any bets that Baldur's Gate II will hit the magic $60 line?

I usually divide the number of hours I use a game (or any other diversion) by its cost to get an "entertainment cost per hour" number. Movies here in Los Angeles are $7.50, so they cost around $4 an hour. Ripoff. Combat Mission cost me $53, but I have played it for at least 106 hours (conservative estimate!), so it costs $.50/hour. However, other games come and go (the aforementioned Diablo II comes to mind), but I keep playing CM. Eventually, its hourly cost will be so low I will be forced to round it down to zero. So, you see, Combat Mission is by far the best entertainment deal out there because it is technically free!

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I'm only interested in hamsters. - Madmatt