DEF BUNGIS Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 Just curious on some opinions of how long a regular PBEM game should take. Understanding that there are some who are very picky about every move, I think you should be able to complete a game over the weekend. 2 days give or take. Now, with ladder games it's different of course. But, how long will the game drag on for, and what will the penalties be for not completeing your turn withtin the given time limit. I suppose each player should decide before play, but IMO, a ladder game should not take over 7 days. So, having not yet played a PBEM game, am I on target or way out there...? Also, what is the preferred method? ICQ or E-MAIL? ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>am I on target or way out there...?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Way out there. I've played a fair number of PBEMs, and it seems normal to get one e-mail exchange a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pax Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 Depends. I generally play with people I know, and we hang out on some server or other and trade files, so it goes pretty quickly. We can get about 3-4 exchanges per hour, so its not tedious. But the other end of the spectrum is to not actually be in contact, and truly play by mail, in which case it takes forever. ------------------ -- Drew E. Harry Moses Brown School "This calls for a subtle combination of mathematics and extreme violence." - The Cube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 Don't get me started on the PBEM system again...but to answer your question...if each player sends 1 to 2 emails per day expect a 30 turn game to take 3 weeks to a month ------------------ "Tryin to be so so bad is bad enough, don't make me laugh by talkin tough" EC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted April 16, 2000 Author Share Posted April 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elvis: Don't get me started on the PBEM system again...but to answer your question...if each player sends 1 to 2 emails per day expect a 30 turn game to take 3 weeks to a month<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, I could understand one turn a day for a ladder game, but playing for fun..? I mean I take my game seriously, but C'mon, if you played on a friday night, saturday night and sunday, you should be able to complete a full game. I can't understand how it would take all day to plot one friggin' move, when your playing for fun. That is the point of the game...right, fun? ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I can't understand how it would take all day to plot one friggin' move, when your playing for fun. That is the point of the game...right, fun?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Everyone is not online at the same time. Also, some cannot afford to stay online long (I believe that many in Europe are charged by the minute). That is two good reasons for a turn a day exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 Lets see we started on the 8th and its turn 25 today..hmmm. I hate playing one turn a day. I download a turn and respond in 30 minutes max. Usually state the last turn of the day so they know. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted April 16, 2000 Author Share Posted April 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username: I download a turn and respond in 30 minutes max. Usually state the last turn of the day so they know. Lewis<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Now that's what I'm talkin about........ This is the way you PBEM. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zhivago Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 I will destroy you, Pax. Now stop hiding those STuGs just because you know I have Hellcats en-rout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DEF BUNGIS: Now that's what I'm talkin about........ This is the way you PBEM. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> BUUUTTTT Let me Caveat that by saying if I were to play someone like Fionn in a publically displayed grudge match.. then I would only take 20 minutes. Actually you should multiply the number of units under your command by one minute each. Thats fair I think. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 DEF Your not talking about PBEM games in it’s original sense, what you seem to want is TCP/IP games. It probably started out with snail mail chess at some point, or whatever game was played when messages begun to travel regularly between two points. The enjoyment is not in the instant gratification, but in the leisurely pondering of the turns and not least in getting a "present" when you come home from work and check your mail, E- or snail. If you want more action, play a few matches simultaneously, because for a lot of people PBEM is not about constantly playing the game but instead about having a bit of a mind game with a good friend, the letters sent along with the turns often being more "important" than the game itself. Different games play differently in PBEM. I guess no one would react to slow play if the game was a massive TOAW scenario, but there really is no difference to my mind while playing CM. It’s not about having to plot a turn all day, it’s about playing a turn when you have the time. I fire up the computer, check my mail, enjoy one, two or three turns sometimes with just a line to go along with it but more often a bit more, telling about how thing are their way, interests, work, this and that, reflections on CM or the game at hand. Now, that’s what I call playing for enjoyment. This is the way I PBEM. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mattias: DEF It’s not about having to plot a turn all day, it’s about playing a turn when you have the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> M I disagree. The game is already giving you a certain Omni-awareness of the situation. I think email games should be "timed". Pick a unit, make a command decision within a minute, move on to the next unit. This can be done at your leisure (when to start) but not with out a sense of urgency. Once you start the battle is going. Its just my opinion. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Wind Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 Patton's downfall - having to use the bathroom for a few minutes during the planning of an operation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Norman Wind: Patton's downfall - having to use the bathroom for a few minutes during the planning of an operation ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Most productive moments he ever oversaw.. C'mon Patton was a silver-spoon fed millionaire character actor. He had the germans next move radioed to him and air supremacy!!! He was an arrogant jackass that doomed sherman crewmen to hideous deaths!!! The damn Pershing tank could have been as numerous as fireflys but he put the kill on that. Ego like that needs to be rectified by intelligent historical hindsight. Guys like Bradley are real American general heroes. Bastard was smart and cared. Supposedly General Rose and Patton had a talk about how they would like to "go". Patton made a pompous claim about taking a bullet to the nose,blah,blah,etc. Rose said in humorous response "Ill probably die in a car accident". Rose took a MP40 burst point blank from a King Tiger tankers submachinegun. Patton died after a prolonged traffic injury. Maybe there is a God. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwin Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 I've been in a pbem game of CE since January 2nd... SERIOUSLY!!! I dont expect a return file for at least a week from this particular opponent. Actually regardless of content he'll take at least 4 days to get back to me Turns generally taking longer than other mails. At first I got confused and generally thought our game was falling apart but I still recieve the occasional file. I hope to continue the match as I've come to savor our battle much more than usual. It's been 4 months and we're still playing cat and mouse, I'm germans tally so far is 2 shermans down to one stug out. I would love to descibe the current tactical situation but... "I know Nuthink" On the otherhand I sometimes play marathon games straight through, either hotseat or via ICQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 Username, What I meant to say was that, even though it takes days until the turns is actually executed and sent away, doesn’t mean that I didn’t play the turn very rapidly. What I am talking about is the flow of an entire PBEM game, not the actual time spent within the game plotting the turn. Who knows, I might be the fastest player in the world and no one would ever notice since I enjoy playing by "slow" PBEM As for time constraints being a relevant factor in a combat simulation, sure, but having my roots in massive board games I guess I tend to accept and indeed enjoy the slower pace of the game as a whole. Then again, being a very fast and accurate turn player can be a huge advantage in some board games, like SL/ASL. Personally I can´t relate at all to the realism debate surrounding the Omni-awareness and time constraints you mention. I know and understand the arguments well, but simply hold the position that I am but one mind, they are many. Hence I need more time and more information than historically available. In wargaming the factors and levels of realism needed to achieve a sense of "immersion" are as diverse as there are people playing. And in the light of this it is rather pointless of trying to flog off essentially subjective views as something approaching objective truths. Not that that has ever happened in this forum M. [This message has been edited by Mattias (edited 04-16-2000).] [This message has been edited by Mattias (edited 04-16-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 Well, I could understand one turn a day for a ladder game, but playing for fun..? "I mean I take my game seriously, but C'mon, if you played on a friday night, saturday night and sunday, you should be able to complete a full game. I can't understand how it would take all day to plot one friggin' move, when your playing for fun. That is the point of the game...right, fun?" One other way that hasn't been mentioned here is using AOL instant messenger or ICQ to transfer files instead of using regular email (AIM is much faster the ICQ by the way). With these I have been about to play many turns in one sitting and can play a game out over a weekend. When TCP/IP is out I fully expect to play an entire game in a few hours. As others folks have said it is not the time it takes to play a turn it's the sitting and waiting while you email it out then wait to get it back ect....and hope that you get a hammerhead opponant like Berli to make your life easier. ------------------ "Tryin to be so so bad is bad enough, don't make me laugh by talkin tough" EC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted April 16, 2000 Author Share Posted April 16, 2000 Friday: Contact oppenent. Set up phase 20 min each. Play 3-6 turns each at 15-20 min each. Friday total around 3 hours. Saturday: start in afternoon, play into evening. Play 15-20 turns, each 15-20 min. Saturday total around 4 hours. Finish game sunday afternoon. 2-3 hours Possibly going into Monday or Tuesday evening. You old foeggies go to speed things up, this is Y2K. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howitzer Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 Hey Everybody! First: I agree that one should not take more than 30 minutes to complete a turn's planning. I try to hold myself to that, but sometimes I'll spend up to an hour. Second: I would love to finish a game in a weekend, but I doubt that will ever happen in my PBEM games. Why? For all the reasons mentioned here in this thread, with which I will not bore you. But, I'll sum them up by saying: "Get a life!" (I mean, I love CM, but there are limits. And, if I don't make them, my wife will! ) Third: Personally, I am happy to receive one or two turns a day. But I am tolerant up to about one or two turns a week. Fourth: TCP/IP will be THE way to play QUICK CM games, for ladder games or otherwise. But, not all games need to be played quickly. Fifth: DEF, you have WAY too much time on your hands. (I'm jealous.) Later, Steve C. [This message has been edited by Howitzer (edited 04-16-2000).] [This message has been edited by Howitzer (edited 04-16-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted April 16, 2000 Author Share Posted April 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Howitzer: Hey Everybody! First: I agree that one should not take more than 30 minutes to complete a turn's planning. I try to hold myself to that, but sometimes I'll spend up to an hour. But, not all games need to be played quickly. Fifth: DEF, you have WAY too much time on your hands. (I'm jealous.) Later, Steve C<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hehe... Not as much as you think. I'm not saying every single game must be a "WEEKEND GAME". Hell, may be the Week long games might be more enjoyable. I don't know....cause I still haven't played a PBEM game. But, I can't imagine a PBEM game taking over 1 week. I guess it should all be decided at the beggining of the game by both players. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrD Posted April 16, 2000 Share Posted April 16, 2000 Actually, one reason I'm so excited about this game is the play-by-e-mail feature. Between a demanding job and a wife I'd like to keep it is very difficult to block out a large chunk of time for a game. I used to love to play AoK online but found that the games often took 3-4 hours! As a gentleman I couldn't just quit a game so I found myself in some professional and social difficulties and had to quit the clan. I'm really looking forward to being able to take my time, even if it means only a few turns a week. As long as both people are in the same situation it shouldn't be a problem. In fact, my dad who is in the same boat has never really got into computer games for that reason but when I told him about CM he said he'd give it a try. I know there are other PBEM wargames but not only is CM by far the best but is also really easy to learn for someone like my dad who's never played computer games. As I read in some review somewhere (and found out for myself in the Beta) the game is so realistic that you just do what you would do in real life. Just my 2 cents. I envy you guys who can play a PBEM game in one weekend! Enjoy it while it lasts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted April 17, 2000 Share Posted April 17, 2000 DEF BUNGIS, The trick is to get as many PBEMs going as you can handle. That way, you usually have a turn waiting for you everytime you check e-mail. AOL Instant Messanger works extremely well for faster play. Mattias, Well said both times. I find the "conversations" easily as enjoyable as the game. I have gotten to know people from all over the world through PBEM and I consider that a very important aspect of the whole CM experience. Elvis, "Hammerhead opponant!" Send the setup... I feel the need to hammer you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted April 17, 2000 Share Posted April 17, 2000 Hehe, DAMN, either some of you guys dont work full time or dont have a girlfriend If I wasnt working nights as well as days Id say a week would be fair for a 20-30 turn game, but if there were any penalties for going over that I wouldnt play under those conditions, life is stressful enough without adding more, I mean, it is a game Def Bungis if you honestly cant understand why it could take more than a week then Id say in a few years you will (aww gees, Im only 26 and Im sounding old), hehe And remember, some CM games can be 2-3 times as long as those in the beta demo. The larger the scenario, the mode units, the more time. I guess thats really why Im guessing more than a week would be common, because Ive played the larger ones [This message has been edited by KwazyDog (edited 04-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted April 17, 2000 Share Posted April 17, 2000 Here in Norway I pay roughly 1$ US per hour online during off-peak (?) hours (5 pm to 7 am weekdays, and 24 hours on weekends). Let's say we managed to swap files every 10 minutes on average. In a 20 turns game (a short one), you need about 30 swaps (????), so that's five hours online. Now, let's take a long game of 40 turns, and my wife would file for a divorce. The money isn't the problem. The time is! Hawk ------------------ Our's is not to reason "why", our's is but to do and die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kettle Black Posted April 17, 2000 Share Posted April 17, 2000 Heya DEF. I assume you only want to play opponents that are in the same timezone as you then? I live in Europe and have played vs some americans who are six-seven hours "behind" me. I come home from work, set up and send the file. Six hours later my opponent comes home from work, receives the file, does his setup and sends the file to me. However, since it is by now at least 1 am for me, I'm asleep. And since I value my sleep more than getting up an hour early I won't open his file until I come back from work. On weekends we usually manage to play 3 turns/day. Both me and my opponents has jobs and a family. If we didn't, things might move faster. This may be Y2K, but welcome to the WORLD WIDE web Kettle Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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