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The Fight for Sight: How Germany Set Unparalleled Superiority in Tank Optics During WW2


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6 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

If there was any German superiority in tank optics in WW2, it's not modelled in the game.

😱

I suspect you might be right though, perhaps because of the small maps?  Happy to learn otherwise of course, as some maps ain't that small...

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7 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

If there was any German superiority in tank optics in WW2, it's not modelled in the game.

Sorry but I strongly disagree. I made a test a few months ago, and in open terrain, with all parameters equald (experience, motivation), it appears clearly that the German tanks spot fasters and hit sooner than the Soviet ones.

I've not made the comparison with US tanks though, but were German optics significantly superior to the US ones at the end of the war?

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I also think that when engagement ranges are short (500 meters) or less many Tank/AT Units rely more on 'Situational Awareness' in hopes to spot and fire quicker, compared to units who rely mostly on narrow optics...As range/cover increases, then Optics come more into play. 

Edited by JoMac
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1 hour ago, PEB14 said:

Sorry but I strongly disagree. I made a test a few months ago, and in open terrain, with all parameters equald (experience, motivation), it appears clearly that the German tanks spot fasters and hit sooner than the Soviet ones.

I've not made the comparison with US tanks though, but were German optics significantly superior to the US ones at the end of the war?

It's been tested out very thoroughly by Drifter Man.

There are small differences between most tanks, for example a T34 76mm spots a little bit worse than a Panzer IV, but a T34 85 spots better than the German tank.

Comparing to the Americans, the best German tanks (Tiger II) spot about as well as a Sherman.

 

 

Edited by Bulletpoint
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Yeah, I'm fairly sure there is no modeling of optics quality based on national origin.

German optics were universally praised, but there is more to spotting and shooting than just optics quality.

__________

Aside from his periscope gun sight ( which is excellent), the gunner has no other type of observation device. He is therefore practically blind, ­ one of the greatest shortcomings of the Panther.

­ The gunsight with two magnification stages is remarkably clear and has its field of view clear in the center. The gunsight enables observation of a target and shells out to over 3000 meters.

Once the commander has located a target, it takes between 20 and 30 seconds until the gunner can open fire. This data, which is significantly greater than that of the Sherman, stems from the absence of a periscope for the gunner.

The French have identified a key aspect that is missing from American comparisons and criticisms of the gunsights in Sherman tanks as compared to Panther (and other German) tanks. Yes the German optics were good.  Clarity was excellent, and ranging reticles were more effective.  Yet it was observed in combat reports that US gunners were able to find and get their sights on target faster.

https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/history/chieftains-hatch-french-panthers/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Peter Samsonov author of Panzer III vs T-34 Eastern Front 1941, recent reddit AMA in which this topic comes up a little: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1dlx8ee/i_am_peter_samsonov_author_of_panzer_iii_vs_t34/

Quote

There are two kinds of optics in a tank, observation devices and gun sights. The T-34's gun sights were fantastic from the very beginning. This is remarked on by American and British testers and while I haven't seen any commentary from the German side, they do complain that the T-34 lays down very accurate fire at 1500+ meters, which you would need a good gun sight for. I have a collection of pre-WW2 and wartime cameras and Soviet glass from that era is perfectly fine. They are still desirable lenses today, although most of the current demand is for post-war types (particularly the Jupiter series).

On the other hand, the tank's observation devices were lacking. In order to make them more resilient to fire, they used polished metal plates rather than glass prisms, which as you can imagine did not go well. These were replaced with prisms later on. The prisms on the sides above the pistol port were also replaced with vision slits covered by bulletproof glass, a simpler and more effective setup (although the prisms could be easily swapped out if damaged and the glass could not).

You hit the nail on the head with the T-34-85 upgrade, where the biggest boon to the tank's vision was introducing a crewman whose full time job it was to just look around. This was attempted with the T-34S but while it was possible to fit a third man into the tank's turret, it was a very uncomfortable position. The T-34 with the commander's cupola was a sort of compromise. The commander's unmagnified vision improved and he could still use his periscope to observe the battlefield, but once the battle began he would be glued to his gun sight.

...

...I have yet to find any complaints about sights in Soviet period sources, even in reports complaining about the observation devices.

 

Edited by fireship4
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