Combat Mission Shock Force 2 - Invitational Grand Tournament

[BFCElvis]

It looks like the first round is coiming along nicely. If I'm reading the leaderboard correctly, it looks like the only matches not completed are @Fizou vs @cargol and @Artkin vs @Jackal2100. With @sohzaz curently at the top!! 

Well done!

[Vacillator]

1 hour ago, BFCElvis said:

and @Artkin vs @Jackal2100.

I think there was a bit of a 'heated debate' about rules in this match so I'm not sure it will complete (I may be wrong) - see the thread here if interested:

 

[Jackal2100]

9 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

I think there was a bit of a 'heated debate' about rules in this match so I'm not sure it will complete (I may be wrong) - see the thread here if interested:

 

That would be disappointing if it doesn't end up finishing. People can have disagreements, but I would hope that an "invitational" tournament would have people who want to play and finish games against the best the game has to offer. @Artkin last said that he was busy when I last was able to contact him on the 20th of March, so hopefully he will have some time freed up so we can complete.

[BFCElvis]

50 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

I think there was a bit of a 'heated debate' about rules in this match so I'm not sure it will complete (I may be wrong) - see the thread here if interested:

 

Wow. I hope that a player wouldn't stop playing a tournament round because someone wasn't playing by their preferred house rules. That would suck out loud. 

Tournaments are hard enough as it is. I'd never ask players in a tournament to follow any house rules. It's hard enough to get players to follow the out of game instructions, let alone special in game rules. People entering tournaments should go into them with the mindset that, if it can be done in the game then it is ok. If that isn't fun for someone then they shouldn't sign up for a tournament. Let's keep in mind that, other than the Invitational, these tournaments are played by all levels of CM experience. Not all players have been playing the games for decades. There are lots of new players brought in by having the games on Steam and the tournaments have had a mix of familiar names and new players...............Which is part of the reason that they are done.

That said, turn 1 arty is/was an issue. To try to avoid that, for the Invitaional and current CMFB tournaments, we've used scenarios that do not have any offboard indirect fire. Not much can be done about on board assets. Although, I suppose that we can look into making all on board units capable of indirect fire arriving as reinforcements. 

[cargol]

4 hours ago, BFCElvis said:

It looks like the first round is coiming along nicely. If I'm reading the leaderboard correctly, it looks like the only matches not completed are @Fizou vs @cargol and @Artkin vs @Jackal2100. With @sohzaz curently at the top!! 

Well done!

Game vs @Fizou is over. Good game! 

Let's move on!

[Vacillator]

1 hour ago, BFCElvis said:

I hope that a player wouldn't stop playing a tournament

I agree John, hopefully I just read too much into the conversation.

[Fizou]

23 hours ago, cargol said:

Game vs @Fizou is over. Good game! 

Let's move on!

Thanks @cargol. Good game and excellent turn rate. I think the T72s let us both down 

Great fun and cant wait for the next @George MCscenario. The desert has never looked better!

On that other note, I think players that dont finish their games in tournaments should be banned for a period or something. 

[MeatEtr]

23 minutes ago, Fizou said:

Thanks @cargol. Good game and excellent turn rate. I think the T72s let us both down 

Great fun and cant wait for the next @George MCscenario. The desert has never looked better!

On that other note, I think players that dont finish their games in tournaments should be banned for a period or something. 

Agreed on the T72s, they probably let everybody down! Its sure tough KOing those T62s, that ERA is a game changer. I did some last min testing and found this out after my setup. But was able to readjust my defense after the start.

Also a side note, those ATGMs from the T62s pretty much suck. From both my games it appeared to do nothing after several hits, except one broke a gun. The HEAT shells killed every time they hit.

Edited April 2 by MeatEtr

[MeatEtr]

On 4/1/2024 at 12:55 PM, BFCElvis said:

It looks like the first round is coming along nicely.... with @sohzaz currently at the top!!

That was just my seat warmer!

[Dawntaker]

Wasn't my finest performance. My defence plan was entirely ruined to the unexpected poor performance of the T72s. I would take T72s from cold war any day over these pieces of scrap metal. 

And typical of me, I messed up the timing of my attack so more troops were killed then needed before the arty could do its work. 

[George MC]

1 hour ago, Dawntaker said:

Wasn't my finest performance. My defence plan was entirely ruined to the unexpected poor performance of the T72s. I would take T72s from cold war any day over these pieces of scrap metal. 

And typical of me, I messed up the timing of my attack so more troops were killed then needed before the arty could do its work. 

Ah see when I created this I'd higher spec T-72s, But they wiped the T-62s so I down graded em. Even then in my playtest it was a close thing.

I am intrigued to see what the AARs say when this phase is done.

[Dawntaker]

50 minutes ago, George MC said:

Ah see when I created this I'd higher spec T-72s, But they wiped the T-62s so I down graded em. Even then in my playtest it was a close thing.

It definitely could have been a close thing if I had a different plan that was built with the tank's true capabilities in mind. Instead what I was expecting was a use of the tanks on the hill to dominate the surrounding terrain and shoot anything that risked approaching the objectives turned into them getting boxed in on the hill by the T62's unable to do anything and would quickly get destroyed if they tried to get off the hill.  

[George MC]

36 minutes ago, Dawntaker said:

It definitely could have been a close thing if I had a different plan that was built with the tank's true capabilities in mind. Instead what I was expecting was a use of the tanks on the hill to dominate the surrounding terrain and shoot anything that risked approaching the objectives turned into them getting boxed in on the hill by the T62's unable to do anything and would quickly get destroyed if they tried to get off the hill.  

Aye - my original 'mental model' of what I thought would pan out was exactly as you outline - shoot and scoot from the hill.

In turn I thought smoke etc would play a large part in this for the attacker.

The reality after lots of play tests in hotseat mode was very different...

[MeatEtr]

2 hours ago, Dawntaker said:

Wasn't my finest performance. My defence plan was entirely ruined to the unexpected poor performance of the T72s. I would take T72s from cold war any day over these pieces of scrap metal. 

And typical of me, I messed up the timing of my attack so more troops were killed then needed before the arty could do its work. 

Hey there you are! Yeah I quickly changed my defense plan after running some T72 vs T62 tests. CMSF2 is least played for me, so needed to do this. I initially had them all back with the BMPs for a full frontal challenge. But thankfully you were a bit slow coming out of the gate which bought me time to reposition most my AFVs into ambush/keyhole spots. I think it worked out better than my initial plan.

Thanks for the quick turn rate and good game!

 

[MeatEtr]

1 hour ago, George MC said:

Ah see when I created this I'd higher spec T-72s, But they wiped the T-62s so I down graded em. Even then in my playtest it was a close thing.

I am intrigued to see what the AARs say when this phase is done.

I did manage to KO a T62 frontally and gotta 2nd one from the side. I dont think I lost a single one in my attack. Though did have some with broken guns, I think 3.

[Jackal2100]

Yeah, have found the t-72's in this fight extremely lackluster. They just don't have the penetration power to reliably kill.

[MeatEtr]

On 4/1/2024 at 3:07 PM, Jackal2100 said:

That would be disappointing if it doesn't end up finishing. People can have disagreements, but I would hope that an "invitational" tournament would have people who want to play and finish games against the best the game has to offer. @Artkin last said that he was busy when I last was able to contact him on the 20th of March, so hopefully he will have some time freed up so we can complete.

Sure hope his dislike for the area fire order isn't playing a factor in playing. Interesting how he was very active in that discussion while not playing your game. Hate to see unfinished games in the first invitational tourney for CM. In my nearly 25 yrs of playing CM1 and 2 in lots of tourneys/campaigns/ladders, I've never come across a player wanting a house rule for restricted area fire use.

Hope you guys can finish up, think you got until the 14th.

[Jackal2100]

30 minutes ago, MeatEtr said:

Sure hope his dislike for the area fire order isn't playing a factor in playing. Interesting how he was very active in that discussion while not playing your game. Hate to see unfinished games in the first invitational tourney for CM. In my nearly 25 yrs of playing CM1 and 2 in lots of tourneys/campaigns/ladders, I've never come across a player wanting a house rule for restricted area fire use.

Hope you guys can finish up, think you got until the 14th.

Yeah, we have been sporadically getting turns in, and it might be close. Hopefully we can conclude things before it defaults, as that would be upsetting.

[M.Herm]

Be warned about possible advertising from the platform owner. Watch at your own risk.

[chuckdyke]

On 4/8/2024 at 4:46 AM, Jackal2100 said:

Yeah, we have been sporadically getting turns in, and it might be close. Hopefully we can conclude things before it defaults, as that would be upsetting.

There should be in the manual a guide from Battle Front how the game should be played. 

[George MC]

22 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

There should be in the manual a guide from Battle Front how the game should be played. 

Is there a ‘correct’ way?

Like as long as players enjoy the game does it matter how they play it?

Anyway given a hyper dynamic environment like a digital battlefield the process of fighting a battle it’s less about a correct way based on a set of rules, more principles and imagination and creativity surely?

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, George MC said:

Is there a ‘correct’ way?

I just feel the player's birds eye view is a little bit of a spoiler. Yes, it is up to two players to have fun and it is up to us to accept invitations. We have enough experts on the forums to share their methods. But silence is Golden. 

[Jackal2100]

I want to thank @Artkin for making sure we could finish our first round of the tournament, and for making it an interesting set of matches.

This is the end result from my assault. Was able to have a TRP on a group of his T72s which was fortunate for me and I was able to take all objectives.

For my defense, I tried to spread out my tanks as much as possible, and although their performance was overall very lackluster, I did have a hero crew who destroyed 

3 T62s and 2 BMPs before going down, by hiding in the small forward Western set of buildings. Their sacrifice will be remembered.

[Andrew Kulin]

Now that Round 1 is done, I want to thank MHerm for a great set of games.  Both were hard fought battles, and yes you did pronounce my last name correctly. 

Looking forward now to Round 2.  I must say that I really like this concept of Syrian vs. Syrian as it should result in balanced force capabilities and thus lead to outcomes that are more of a reflection of player strategy and skill, and lucky (or not so lucky) breaks here and there.

Which segways into something that happened to me in Round 1 that I kept amongst myself and the BFC team while things were being played out.  I am wondering if anyone else playing had this happen to them as well.  For my Red-Side (Rebel) game, I never received the two pick-up truck mounted AA-guns.  Which was totally weird.  Anyone else have that happen?  Fortunately, whatever this quirk was, it happened on only two marginal units, and not for example, to my T-62 units.  Anyways, just curious.

[MeatEtr]

6 hours ago, Andrew Kulin said:

Now that Round 1 is done, I want to thank MHerm for a great set of games.  Both were hard fought battles, and yes you did pronounce my last name correctly. 

Looking forward now to Round 2.  I must say that I really like this concept of Syrian vs. Syrian as it should result in balanced force capabilities and thus lead to outcomes that are more of a reflection of player strategy and skill, and lucky (or not so lucky) breaks here and there.

Which segways into something that happened to me in Round 1 that I kept amongst myself and the BFC team while things were being played out.  I am wondering if anyone else playing had this happen to them as well.  For my Red-Side (Rebel) game, I never received the two pick-up truck mounted AA-guns.  Which was totally weird.  Anyone else have that happen?  Fortunately, whatever this quirk was, it happened on only two marginal units, and not for example, to my T-62 units.  Anyways, just curious.

Oh that’s right, forgot about this, I never got one either.