Going to the bog

[Vacillator]

Okay so that's an English expression .

Anyway you know the old trick of reversing your vehicle out of a bogged position?  Tonight I was reversing my Luchs to start with and got bogged, and wondered whether going forward would work like the normal opposite direction trick.  It did.  Is this to be expected or was I just lucky?

[chuckdyke]

23 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

Okay so that's an English expression .

Anyway you know the old trick of reversing your vehicle out of a bogged position?  Tonight I was reversing my Luchs to start with and got bogged, and wondered whether going forward would work like the normal opposite direction trick.  It did.  Is this to be expected or was I just lucky?

There is no evidence that anything will unbog a vehicle. 

[Erwin]

3 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

no evidence that anything will unbog a vehicle. 

ie:  one just has to wait for computer "roulette wheel" to turn and land on the right number.  Usually there is a better than 50% chance to unbog.

[chuckdyke]

50 minutes ago, Erwin said:

ie:  one just has to wait for computer "roulette wheel" to turn and land on the right number.  Usually there is a better than 50% chance to unbog.

I think it is a leftover from the earlier game. Slow simulated using a lower gear but I believe it is not longer the case. Different move modes is required for the tactics used not for much else imo.

[Artkin]

Interesting question. I've enacted the reversing trick when I bog and it initially seemed like an effective way to counter it. I assume reversing again would be the way to go. The computer probably doesn't differentiate between how you got bogged, but instead it only knows that you are currently bogged. 

[chuckdyke]

Save the game and try to get going. 1000 times not doing anything, 1000 times slow and a thousand times reverse. Publish your findings TBH I couldn't be bothered.

[Vacillator]

15 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

TBH I couldn't be bothered.

Oh sir you cut me to the quick.  No not really , such testing is not for me either.  But I would say that when my vehicles go forward into a bog, my impression is that reversing back out of the bog seems to work more often that not.  Does the game know which direction I was travelling (forward or back) I have no idea, just wanted other people's thoughts. 

[Lethaface]

I think just changing the move orders helps against bogging, but I usually try reversing as well just because that seems logic. 

[Bulletpoint]

I believe there is absolutely no effect of changing move orders, cancelling move orders, or ordering the vehicle to reverse. Once you bog, it's a game of chance whether you get out of it or if you get immobilised.

Crew experience, vehicle type, and probably other factors go into the calculation, but not anything you as the player can do.

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, Lethaface said:

I think just changing the move orders helps against bogging, but I usually try reversing as well just because that seems logic. 

I done my fair share of unbogging. Four-wheel drives have a winch in the front for that purpose. Reversing just makes it worse. I think it is correctly modelled, get a little time to get free and then get immobilized.

Edited January 27, 2023 by chuckdyke

[Erwin]

7 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I believe there is absolutely no effect of changing move orders, cancelling move orders, or ordering the vehicle to reverse. Once you bog, it's a game of chance whether you get out of it or if you get immobilised.

Crew experience, vehicle type, and probably other factors go into the calculation, but not anything you as the player can do.

There was huge discussion about this when the game came out and what Bulletpoint said is what BF confirmed.  There is always the possibility that an update changed things, but that is unlikely unless BF wants to comment.  

[chuckdyke]

Plot a fast move order and see what the game engine does. Corners, fording etc the vehicle slows down. You can do fast with a tank with passengers, the tank travels slower than a tank without passengers. So it makes sense to let a tank with passengers travel on hunt with a dismount for the passengers. Once the tank stops to engage the passengers at least dismount. Unless it makes tactical sense for vehicles, go fast. Hunting for example with a jeep is silly, speed is his only protection. 

[Lethaface]

30 minutes ago, Erwin said:

There was huge discussion about this when the game came out and what Bulletpoint said is what BF confirmed.  There is always the possibility that an update changed things, but that is unlikely unless BF wants to comment.  

I'll keep to my superstitions. I think I tried changing them and faced, accidental or not, increased immobilizations. 

[Vacillator]

Oh well, without knowledge of the logic behind it we seem to have varied experience.  Perhaps just luck then, depending on Charles' coding...

[Artkin]

I actually did a load of digging through these forums when I was frustrated with the ridiculous conscript bogging rate (I still am). I came across the reversing trick in one of the posts I came across. I'll look for it fast but no guarantees I'll find it. 

[chuckdyke]

43 minutes ago, Artkin said:

I actually did a load of digging through these forums when I was frustrated with the ridiculous conscript bogging rate (I still am). I came across the reversing trick in one of the posts I came across. I'll look for it fast but no guarantees I'll find it. 

If you feel strong about it I would test it. Just save the game and test to see what works.

 

[Artkin]

4 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

If you feel strong about it I would test it. Just save the game and test to see what works.

 

Then go ahead and test it

[chuckdyke]

21 minutes ago, Artkin said:

Then go ahead and test it

Not important for me somebody tested it and it doesn't show evidence that changing travel modes helps bogged vehicles. To prove otherwise you need to test it. Not bickering on the forums about it. I take the word from experienced players who like testing.

[Brille]

I count myself to these people who have the opinion that no player input can determine  if a vehicle will unbog or get immobilized, at least not by simple move orders. 

If a tank/vehicle gets bogged you actually see that the crew starts its own process of unbogging: The tracks/wheels go forwards and backwards on the spot, while the beast rumbles a bit. 

 

So I would say (without knowing 100% of the facts myself though) to the people, who think that reversing matters, that they just have wishful thinking - no offense. 

The problem is that even intensive tests wouldn't bring you any believable results I guess... Maybe a hint in a certain direction but a real clearance not so much. 

 

In my games most of the time vehicles get unbogged by themselves, sometimes they get immobilized, sometimes more, sometimes less and sometimes they don't even bog once in a battle. 

So how does one determine if reversing really helps to unbog? 

To me they would have unbogged themselves, regardless for the additional reverse order. They are just 2 stand alone procedures. So if the process "unbogging" (if this one fails=immobilize) is finished, then the vehicle will go on with the next command which will be "reverse" in this case then. 

 

Some people also believe that a marked anti tank minefield heavily reduces the chance of a tank triggering a mine. (ok another topic)

But I can decline that because this one you clearly can test and I did. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Brille

[Vacillator]

3 hours ago, Brille said:

So I would say (without knowing 100% of the facts myself though) to the people, who think that reversing matters, that they just have wishful thinking - no offense

Well I suppose I started the thread, and I'm not offended, in fact thanks for adding to it.  You may also be right, but I think I'll continue to issue the reverse command when I get the chance.  Of course it could just be psychological - I *think* I'm having an impact on bogging/unbogging by doing something instead of just waiting, but in reality I'm not.  I don't know.

[Warts 'n' all]

I think it is just human nature to want to try to "solve" the problem of bogging. Whether we are doing any good or not.

In the meantime I hope that everyone is having a happy Tyrant Execution Day.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Warts 'n' all