French SOF vs speeding inbound VBIED headed right at their position

[John Kettler]

Here is an intimate look at the French side of WOT at the point of the spear. This is ATGM fire against an extremely dangerous threat.
 

Regards,

John Kettler

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Boum! 

[puje]

Is that a ATGM? It's coming down from above. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

It's a Javelin.

[John Kettler]

On 12/18/2021 at 2:14 PM, puje said:

Is that a ATGM? It's coming down from above. 

puje,
 

Javelin has two different engagement modes: 1) the familiar flat trajectory Direct Fire and 2) Top Attack, so as to avoid the strongest armor on the tank and hit it on the weakest, the top of the hull and turret top. Some analysts believe the reported elsewhere by me (CMBS Forum) so-called birdcage armor enshrouding many Russian tanks these days is there chiefly to defeat, or at least degrade to survivable levels, the Javelin in Top Attack mode.  Here's Top Attack mode in action against a combat-loaded T-72 in a frontal engagement. Note the near vertical impact angle causing the shaped charge jet to hit the thin turret top armor almost perpendicularly. Contrast this with the extremely low impact angle against the bow armor, greatly increasing its effective thickness, as well as ERA. Some Russian tanks, such as the T-14 Armata not in the game, will have hard kill systems akin to Israel's Trophy, too, effectively providing the tank with a layered defense on and off the tank.

When Javelin was first provided to the Ukraine, it came with a stipulation that it be kept in the rear with Spec Ops troops, to be sent forward only in case of invasion. Now, though, the weapon is forward deployed with main force troops, making the Kremlin's military calculus, if you will, much tougher. I've used Javelin in CMBS, and it is a murderous weapon, with Top Attack enabling the swift, easy destruction of the toughest Russian tanks. The Kremlin has every right to be concerned about the forward deployment and proliferation of the Javelin and appears to be taking countermeasures. That said, their efficacy remains unproven. Ukrainian Army tests on a very poor live fire target simulator (T-55 turret atop an APC hull, no fuel or ammo present, so not combat loaded, either) wrecked the birdcage armor and left a messed up tank roof, but with no prior views of the test target's condition, drawing firm conclusions is iffy at best. Nor is it possible to determine whether the pseudo-tank target turret, which had no ERA at all, was penetrated. My personal informed assessment is that the much ballyhooed defeat of the birdcage armor was show, but not necessarily having any major go. Am of the firm informed opinion is that even if a top attack was stopped from killing a real combat-loaded tank outright, the tank would be severely damaged in terms of  one or many of these: comms, satnav, IFF, digital battle management, FCS and the HMG. In other words, there'd be a tank, and it might still be able to shoot, but it would effectively be an abruptly several generations earlier tank, a shell of its former self. Should a Javelin strike from overhead while the TC was head out or more, then the tank would likely lose the crew and possibly explode outright via the explosion getting into the fighting compartment. 
 

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited December 31, 2021 by John Kettler

[John Kettler]

puje,

Am fairly certain, too, that, even if there is no fighting compartment penetration with the tank buttoned, the crew would almost certainly be out of the fight for a time (got their bell rung), wounded or even killed by the massive detonation blast mere feet overhead. This isn't to say such blasts are automatically devastating. In Syria, no fewer than three Syrian Army T-90s took direct TOW 2A hits and fought on, but (and a huge one at that) these were Direct Fire attacks, not Top Attacks, so we're talking vastly thicker and better protected armor than on the upper hull and turret roof.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Redwolf]

That looks more like an airplane attack to me.

[Armorgunner]

18 minutes ago, Redwolf said:

That looks more like an airplane attack to me.

You can even hear, when they launch the Javelin.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

On 1/1/2022 at 1:58 AM, Redwolf said:

That looks more like an airplane attack to me.

It's a Javelin.....99% of that explosion is the secondary, remember it's a VBIED and the missile just set it off.

[puje]

You know what, that day for some reason I thought ATGM meant only wire guided, and that those guided remotely had another acronym. My mistake. 

[Lethaface]

They first fire a Milan which misses, followed by a Javelin. 

[THH149]

On 1/1/2022 at 12:41 PM, John Kettler said:

puje,

Am fairly certain, too, that, even if there is no fighting compartment penetration with the tank buttoned, the crew would almost certainly be out of the fight for a time (got their bell rung), wounded or even killed by the massive detonation blast mere feet overhead. This isn't to say such blasts are automatically devastating. In Syria, no fewer than three Syrian Army T-90s took direct TOW 2A hits and fought on, but (and a huge one at that) these were Direct Fire attacks, not Top Attacks, so we're talking vastly thicker and better protected armor than on the upper hull and turret roof.

Regards,

John Kettler

Syria is a neat venue for weapons testing.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

15 hours ago, THH149 said:

Syria is a neat venue for weapons testing.

I wonder how Syrians feel about that?