AI using artillery

[Marwek77 aka Red Reporter]

Hello,

I am creating a scenario where Soviet company has access to off map platoon of 3x120mm mortars. I issued support target - destroy and gave to mortars only limited ammo. But after this bombardment I simply want to restrict the AI to use rest of the ammo, because they just drop it on own troops - they are advancing too fast. But how to do it?

Or how to force AI to use all of the ammo in initial bombardment?

In Red Thunder I simply disconnect on map mortars from C2 and they follow my plan of bombardment. But in CMCW mortars have radios and there is always some clever AI commander out there who calls nice fire mission only later to walk into drop zone himself...

[MOS:96B2P]

4 minutes ago, Marwek77 aka Red Reporter said:

Or how to force AI to use all of the ammo in initial bombardment?

If the Destroy bombardment is set to limited ammo but still has ammo left after the bombardment would scarce work or is that not enough ammo now?  

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I didn't think the AI reused off-map batteries that were assigned to the (AI Target Plan) initial bombardment.....I've never noticed it doing so. 

My assumption/impression was that the ammo supply of off-map batteries set for (AI Target Plan) initial bombardments was automatically matched to the intensity of the bombardment so that they use it all.

Can any of the older hands clarify?

Edited November 28, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[MikeyD]

I believe 'Destroy' is telling the AI to use up all the ammo you've got on that target. 'Damage' should use less and eventually stop. I'm not entirely sure about 'suppress', I think that's a slow drip-drip-drip of ordnance into an area but I don't know how the AI decides its done enough.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

But does the AI ever re-use an off-map battery in your experience?

I've messed with a lot of scenarios and I like blowing stuff up, but I've never noticed this. 

[Marwek77 aka Red Reporter]

Yes, in my case with "Destroy" there is still some ammo left and AI call arty later during mission.

Not finished yet, but you can test it if you want. Blue only, Red attack. 

AAA Attack test2.btt

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Never ever seen that.....Will try your file and then try to reproduce it. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Glubokii Boy]

I did a quick test of this in CMRT...placing 1 on-map german mortar on the map...

I'm sad to say that even this feature of the AI artillery programing is...RANDOM ! it seems...

It made no difference with what ammo level i set or witch bombardment option i chosed (destroy, suppres, damage)...

Sometimes the AI mortar used up all its ammo...The next time it  did not...Next time again...it did fire all it got...

Random, random, random...The AI artillery programing gives the scenariodesigner awfully limited control of how to design an AI artillery plan....

I really, really hope BFC will have a look at the AI artillery programing...soon. Because this is not good.

 

[George MC]

3 minutes ago, Glubokii Boy said:

I did a quick test of this in CMRT...placing 1 on-map german mortar on the map...

I'm sad to say that even this feature of the AI artillery programing is...RANDOM ! it seems...

It made no difference with what ammo level i set or witch bombardment option i chosed (destroy, suppres, damage)...

Sometimes the AI mortar used up all its ammo...The next time it  did not...Next time again...it did fire all it got...

Random, random, random...The AI artillery programing gives the scenariodesigner awfully limited control of how to design an AI artillery plan....

I really, really hope BFC will have a look at the AI artillery programing...soon. Because this is not good.

 

Trick to overcoming this shortcoming. Is have the arty modules set for whatever ammo limit you want e.g. scare, limite etc. Then let the AI balst away on the AI arty plan. You can then have more arty modules come on later 9think arty had to reposition after firing its planned fire to avoid CB fire). Then AI player will use its arty as it sees fit. Its a passable workaround. 

[Glubokii Boy]

45 minutes ago, George MC said:

 Its a passable workaround. 

It is ...but having to rely on workarounds is not desirable. As a designer...being able to specify timings,duration, intensity etc, etc and to also be able to asign specific targets to specific assets would be preferable..a little bit less of this random behaviour would be really nice imo.

Perhaps also being able to link bombardments to triggers...

Having some more controll over the AI-artilleryprograming would also make the scenario editor somewhat more newbie friendly i belive...Not needing to rely on these workarounds.

Updating this AI artillery is one of those fairly simple things to add i would think...and one that would have a pretty significant impact on scenario design...Atleast as far as user friendlyness goes ...As well as providing a more challaging/realistic AI...

It will primarely need some UI changes to the editor...Not that much more...

 

 

 

[Marwek77 aka Red Reporter]

On 11/29/2021 at 10:02 PM, George MC said:

Trick to overcoming this shortcoming. Is have the arty modules set for whatever ammo limit you want e.g. scare, limite etc. Then let the AI balst away on the AI arty plan. You can then have more arty modules come on later 9think arty had to reposition after firing its planned fire to avoid CB fire). Then AI player will use its arty as it sees fit. Its a passable workaround. 

What I do is following: I set 3 mortars and let them fire on target and then simple move them away several steps after attack force enters trigger zone. During movement and redeploying they are unable to shoot, thats fine.

I tried also repositioning of fire based in triggering and it works nice in RT under very simple condition - mortar cannot have radio contact. This way my mortars fire is moving in front of my attack force. Cannot do this in CW or BS, because they have radios and somebody always call them and change my plan 

But this scenario is something like entering zone and the mortars should be off map. Problem is that off map mortars always leave some rounds even when calling Destroy and then AI Commander can call it after bombardment...

[domfluff]

You can set batteries to a reinforcement group, which will delay them to a specific time.

The AI will also call in off-map artillery on it's own, but clearly there are quite a few factors to manage there.

[MOS:96B2P]

7 hours ago, Marwek77 aka Red Reporter said:

very simple condition - mortar cannot have radio contact. This way my mortars fire is moving in front of my attack force. Cannot do this in CW or BS, because they have radios and somebody always call them and change my plan

The AI stealing on map mortar (CTRL = Fire plans) is a problem I have also seen.  I've wanted to do some testing with it but haven't gotten a good solution yet.  The presence of radio C2 with the mortars allows the AI to sometimes redirect the mortars.  Two possible solutions.

1)  Mortars no time for AI requests:  The mortars constantly have a (CTRL=Fire) fire mission shifting from one bombardment to another.  Probably need extra ammo dumps or trucks close by so they don't run out of ammo.  With the constant fire missions maybe the AI doesn't have an opportunity to steal the mortars for a different fire mission? 

2)  Remove mortar unit C2:  Assign the mortar HQ units with a radio to arrive as a reinforcement after the end of the scenario.  Or have the mortar HQ units with radios out of C2 range of the mortar tubes.  Or have the mortar HQ units with a radio assigned to a different AI group example [A8].  [A8] moves to an exit zone at scenario start and disappears from map.  At 5 minutes a reinforcement group arrives (platoon of tanks, etc.) as the new [A8] so the [A8] group can still be fully used during the scenario.