Tactics Against Aircraft?

[pintere]

I just wrapped up the scenario "Valley of Ashes". Tons of fun! CMCW is definitely an interesting blend of both WWII and modern-era CM titles and I've had quite the time trying to figure out how to adjust to the cold war battlefield.

One very interesting experience about this scenario though is just how LETHAL the Soviet aircraft and helis are. In the game I had a total of 13 tanks altogether (8 M60A3s and 5 M60A2s). Of these a total of 8 () were knocked out by enemy aviation (3 in one strike), most before they had even fired a shot. Quite a few other vehicles were also destroyed by aircraft. Although I did have some Redeyes on the battlefield they quickly ran out of ammunition and so for most of the game I basically had no idea how to deal with opposing airstrikes. 

You guys know any good tactics against aircraft? For instance, spreading out your SAM teams or keeping them closer to your vehicles? Do smokescreens help at all? And, in particular, does it help at all if I hide my tanks in forests? I would think that the latter tactic is surely a realistic option (and none of my tanks and other vehicles were knocked out whilst hiding in the woods), but I don't have enough game experience to be sure and I'd rather have a definitive answer before tackling the campaign. 

[Halmbarte]

Dispersion and concealment.

Keep units far enough apart that a air strike can only get one at a time. Hide units under trees or tucked up close to buildings. 

Keep AA units out in the open with clear fields of fire. Nothing is more disheartening than seeing your AA light up a forest…

 

H

[Redwolf]

[SPOILER ALERT]

The air support in that scenario includes cluster bombs. So wide spacing between your units is essential.

Otherwise there is not much that can be done except bringing more sustainable AA units (vulcan or SAM armed M113s).

[MikeyD]

Manpads next to their rides mean they can 'borrow' missile without having to 'acquire'. Move too far away and the link is broken. The downside is the vehicle itself may be subject to an airstrike, risking your AA guy becoming collateral damage. One issue is expending all of your missiles too early. If you keep an AA team mounted in their Mutt they won't fire. Then you can dismount them to continue the fight after your other AA assets have been exhausted.

Edited July 25, 2021 by MikeyD

[dbsapp]

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

Manpads next to their rides mean they can 'borrow' missile without having to 'acquire'. Move too far away and the link is broken. The downside is the vehicle itself may be subject to an airstrike, risking your AA guy becoming collateral damage. One issue is expending all of your missiles too early. If you keep an AA team mounted in their Mutt they won't fire. Then you can dismount them to continue the fight after your other AA assets have been exhausted.

Do you mean that if stinger\igla is kept near vehicle it acquires additional missiles automatically? What about the rest types of ammo, like bullets and rpg?

[Halmbarte]

6 minutes ago, dbsapp said:

Do you mean that if stinger\igla is kept near vehicle it acquires additional missiles automatically? What about the rest types of ammo, like bullets and rpg?

Mortar crews will get bombs off their trucks if they are close enough, never bothered to check if the troops pick up ammo too. 

 

H

[MikeyD]

If you put troops next to other troops they will 'borrow off their neighbors. I've found it handy to sprint depleted infantry teams next to full-up reinforcements so they can resume firing

Edited July 26, 2021 by MikeyD

[domfluff]

5 hours ago, dbsapp said:

Do you mean that if stinger\igla is kept near vehicle it acquires additional missiles automatically? What about the rest types of ammo, like bullets and rpg?

Yes.

[A Canadian Cat]

11 hours ago, MikeyD said:

If you put troops next to other troops they will 'borrow off their neighbors. I've found it handy to sprint depleted infantry teams next to full-up reinforcements so they can resume firing

You should be aware that this sharing will only happen between members of the same platoon and it's one mag at a time. This is very handy for heavy munitions like AA missiles and for "need to be shooting now" with infantry. For the long term you want infantry to acquire some of their own ammo though since it's a lot more efficient over the long term.

Something else you should know is that on map mortar assets will report all rounds they have access to in the artillery call UI. That means if you have two mortar teams with 16 rounds each and two trucks parked near them each with 32 rounds then both mortar teams will say they have 80 rounds or 96 rounds if the teams are close too. This is  because each team can get rounds from both trucks. When I'm setting up an on map battery with transport like that I try to arrange it so each mortar team is far enough from each other team to not share and position their truck so that only one team can actually access the rounds in the truck. That way the rounds available count in the UI will be more useful.

[Erwin]

Yes, ditto, for the ammo bearer teams.  Note that the mortar will first take the ammo from the ammo bearers and will only use its own ammo stock when the ammo bearer ammo is depleted. 

However... if a mortar ammo carrying vehicle (of the same formation) is close and there is no ammo bearer close enuff, the mortar will use its own ammo first and only then start on the vehicle's ammo (ie: after the mortar team's own ammo is gone).

[Combatintman]

On 7/25/2021 at 3:19 PM, pintere said:

You guys know any good tactics against aircraft? For instance, spreading out your SAM teams or keeping them closer to your vehicles? Do smokescreens help at all? And, in particular, does it help at all if I hide my tanks in forests? I would think that the latter tactic is surely a realistic option (and none of my tanks and other vehicles were knocked out whilst hiding in the woods), but I don't have enough game experience to be sure and I'd rather have a definitive answer before tackling the campaign. 

To drag this thread closer to the subject of its title, there are no real nuances to avoiding getting whacked by aircraft.  If you have air defence assets then deploy them:

• With half-decent fields of view/fire into the sky.
• In positions to cover the stuff you really really don't want to see get destroyed.
• Close to stocks of further missiles.

In addition to the above, and/or if you don't have air defence assets:

• Use smoke to either obscure your really important stuff from the enemy asset calling in the air asset.
• Get yourself into woods or other terrain that offers you good concealment and, where possible cover as well.
• Seek out and utterly smash every single C2 and dedicated observation asset the enemy has.
• Employ rapid manoeuvre.

Ultimately though, there is a fair amount of abstraction in the modelling of air/aviation and their engagement by ground assets so you will always be susceptible to the fortunes of war when you hear the sound of freedom above your troops.

[dbsapp]

Great tips, guys.