Berlin CMRT Map

[Warts 'n' all]

Elizabeth looks up from her Whitehall Gazette. "Is a blender some kind of mechanical wooden spoon?"

Noddlehead wakes from his afternoon nap. "Did you say something dearest?"

[RockinHarry]

1 hour ago, quakerparrot67 said:

can't remember if it was in this thread, but were the dragon's teeth mod ever released for rh's yeg scenario?  i realize it's a cmbn scenario, but i seem to recall it being discussed along with all the blenderizing and mod wizardry here...

cheers,

rob

 

@Lucky_Strike ?

IIRC last published and working version was here otherwise:

 

[quakerparrot67]

On 10/18/2022 at 12:07 PM, Lucky_Strike said:

Favour time everyone/anyone interested ...

I'm messing around with the dragon's teeth normal maps and, being the decisive person that I am, I can't really decide on my favourite style. This is subtle, but looking carefully one can see the differences more or less. So, I have uploaded a quick mod set and part of Harry's Westwall map (hope that's ok Harry?) - adapted with the new mod in mind. If you would all be so kind as to download it pop it into you CMBN Z directory and add the scenario to your scenarios folder and then run it. Open it as German's then what you'll have is a chunk of Westwall with graffitied 1-4 dragon's teeth, all the same texture but with different normal maps. In one corner by the right side of the pine forest, facing you, is a bare patch with, hopefully, textures 1 to 4 in a little cluster ...

If not have a wander around the Westwall to see the various textures.

Get down close and inspect them with shaders and shadows on, see if you have a preference as to how the normal maps affect the surface, toggle shaders on and off to see the normal map pop in and out of use. Movie mode makes the contrast more pronounced but is not essential to see the normal maps, they are used only with shaders on. Move around the teeth, the normal maps are more noticeable in shaded areas rather than full, direct light. 

If you feel adventurous open the scenario in the editor and change the time so that different light influences them, or try different weather effects. You need to deploy Axis units to actually see the teeth in the editor.

Once you've decided on your favourite please let me know.

Thanks 

Download scenario and teeth here

 a little confused... being a westwall scenario, is this for rt or fb or perhaps bn?   sorry if being dense,  the mod looks good in your pics, cant wait to see it in action!

 

cheers,

rob

[RockinHarry]

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

This is the free model I've found:

It's quite well done, has good use of flat textures, nothing odd or procedural to convert. It opens in our version of Blender. The wireframe is nice and clean:

At the moment it's a bit too complex nearly 400,000 faces/ 200,000 triangles. However over 100K of those are just for the bronze statue on top. Applying a quick and dirty decimator modifier to the mesh gave me about 30,000 triangles - which is I think quite good - I've had trees with more!

You can see the model is starting to break down - some of the textures are stretching badly (notice on the columns) but not the worst I've seen, even compared to some BF stock models!

If I can break it down into component parts then the decimate process will give a better result. I doubt I can do much about stuff like pixeltruppen walking through walls or pillars but perhaps the side temples will operate if they are barns. Use ground textures to make a lot of it off limits and it might just work. It's gonna have to be a compromise at the end of the day, but as a backdrop it should work. And if folks don't like that fact that it's not useable well they are welcome to replace it with something else or talk to the 

Gorgeous model! Don´t forget we can use normal maps for smaller detail things so don´t need actual geometry for everything.

If exported in parts or a whole, one could try flavor objects and then see further. See Aquila´s ruin model for enveloping with visible or invisible working in game objects.

[quakerparrot67]

6 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

@Lucky_Strike ?

IIRC last published and working version was here otherwise:

 

thanks, harry.  just need to figure out which cm it's for.

 

chhers,

 rob

 

[RockinHarry]

6 minutes ago, quakerparrot67 said:

 a little confused... being a westwall scenario, is this for rt or fb or perhaps bn?   sorry if being dense,  the mod looks good in your pics, cant wait to see it in action!

 

cheers,

rob

it´s universal object. It´s the same for at least all the WW2 titles. Grab Lucky´s file, then unzip everything BUT the *.btt file into a seperate mod folder in your games data/z location. You then can place hedgehog/dragon teeth yourself when in unit editor select from "fortification" types. As said CMBN, CMFB, CMRT and likely CMFI (untested) .

If you like playing the CMBN (requirement) battle as well you´ll find it here: https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/combat-mission-battle-for-normandy/cm-battles-for-normandy/cmbn-v4-mg-vp-you-enter-germany-introduction/

It plays well with or without new hedgehog mod.

[RockinHarry]

1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said:

JM that's not got anything to do with how your file is constructed, nor how the game handles your textures. Those settings are for how Blender displays and renders stuff (use tooltips to help understand what stuff i, I know they're not great and often obscure, but those items are clearly labelled rendering - we don't need to render anything). I have even less than you in that palette, definitely no textured solid. I think you need to focus on getting your textures right before you import them into Blender. If you're using external models then convert all textures to bmp and use those to replace the existing dds (what are these files!!!) or whatever. Practice on something simple first to understand the process. You need to look at these palettes as I've said before:

And only watch training videos that are pertinent to 2.79 or earlier, the method is completely different in later Blender versions and will just confuse (tick as appropriate) annoy and confuse again.

BABY STEPS!!!!!

Yep, we just need 24Bit standard BMP and the exotic 32Bit alpha layer ones. The 32 Bit files alpha layer IIRC can be of the 2 or 256 bit types. Depends on what model needs them. If your model turns all black (or washy) in game, then it´s likely the wrong type (2 or 256Bit exclusively) or file is 24Bit, missing the layer entirely. That´s from my understanding ATM.

[JM Stuff]

47 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Yep, we just need 24Bit standard BMP and the exotic 32Bit alpha layer ones. The 32 Bit files alpha layer IIRC can be of the 2 or 256 bit types. Depends on what model needs them. If your model turns all black (or washy) in game, then it´s likely the wrong type (2 or 256Bit exclusively) or file is 24Bit, missing the layer entirely. That´s from my understanding ATM.

Thanks you guys You and Lucky to help me with the bits and added infos, and also for the link about PS I will download it tomorrow and check this all in details ! 

JM

[quakerparrot67]

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

it´s universal object. It´s the same for at least all the WW2 titles. Grab Lucky´s file, then unzip everything BUT the *.btt file into a seperate mod folder in your games data/z location. You then can place hedgehog/dragon teeth yourself when in unit editor select from "fortification" types. As said CMBN, CMFB, CMRT and likely CMFI (untested) .

If you like playing the CMBN (requirement) battle as well you´ll find it here: https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/combat-mission-battle-for-normandy/cm-battles-for-normandy/cmbn-v4-mg-vp-you-enter-germany-introduction/

It plays well with or without new hedgehog mod.

thanks, harry, i think it's the 'you enter germany' option i was looking for.  so, how would i add the mod to that scenario?

 

cheers,

rob

 

[quakerparrot67]

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

it´s universal object. It´s the same for at least all the WW2 titles. Grab Lucky´s file, then unzip everything BUT the *.btt file into a seperate mod folder in your games data/z location. You then can place hedgehog/dragon teeth yourself when in unit editor select from "fortification" types. As said CMBN, CMFB, CMRT and likely CMFI (untested) .

If you like playing the CMBN (requirement) battle as well you´ll find it here: https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/combat-mission-battle-for-normandy/cm-battles-for-normandy/cmbn-v4-mg-vp-you-enter-germany-introduction/

It plays well with or without new hedgehog mod.

working beautifully in 'you enter  germany', seeing that 'crab' rolling through was really cool! thanks, harry.

 

cheers,

rob

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by quakerparrot67

[Lucky_Strike]

3 hours ago, JM Stuff said:

Ok Lucky I will follow your advices and only for 2.79 is true that the new version are totally different. 

So I will delete this little text that have nothing to do with the thread.

thanks again to your help 

JM

 

It's a tough road my friend ... I know it's made doubly hard for you when so much of the tuition is in English. Keep plugging away at it I'm sure you'll get there in the end.

[Lucky_Strike]

3 hours ago, quakerparrot67 said:

can't remember if it was in this thread, but were the dragon's teeth mod ever released for rh's yeg scenario?  i realize it's a cmbn scenario, but i seem to recall it being discussed along with all the blenderizing and mod wizardry here...

cheers,

rob

 

Harry has already answered this for you Rob, but just to add. The mod, as it exists, is just a beta. I'm going to release a full, proper version that will be an all singing, all dancing affair with added textures. It will be part of an ongoing series of defensive works mods in expectation of getting the FB module one day. So far it can be used wherever there are hedgehogs, so any WW2 theatre.

Enjoy!

[quakerparrot67]

7 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Harry has already answered this for you Rob, but just to add. The mod, as it exists, is just a beta. I'm going to release a full, proper version that will be an all singing, all dancing affair with added textures. It will be part of an ongoing series of defensive works mods in expectation of getting the FB module one day. So far it can be used wherever there are hedgehogs, so any WW2 theatre.

Enjoy!

thank you, l.s., i have it working in the y.e.g. scenario, really cool.

does the 'trouble with siegfried' scenario if cmfb use hedgehogs?  seems like these would be a natural for this mod.  can't wait to see the final set!

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

All good ideas! Yeah windmill footprint is too large at given size, yet I´s more thinking of a prototype and derive usefull stuff from it. I.e base shape, level construction (maybe "easier" to be figured out for indi builds first) and any META that might possibly help.

I did buildings are about as much as I can get my head around at the moment. Even then there's so much to know about them/their models that I could easily get very distracted.

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

I wouldn´t exclude working levels yet. One could possibly use max supported level structure and make the "roof" part extraordinarily "tall" maybe. It would still be a great vantage point at level 7 or 8 ( level x 2.5m = y). One could also place it on raised (ditch locked) terrain tile thus squeezing out couple more meters maybe. One could at least test if a confined space supports any ptrooper occupations at all. An inner space diameter of say 2-3m should be minimum, but who knows. Think FOW issues only apply to "vehicle" type classes, like pillboxes is. For building types it might be "just" some required META adaptions to be made (I hope).

I'm actually thinking it's just easier to forget the levels in this than try to make them work since I don't really know much about the workings of the buildings. There are quite a few models that I came across that perhaps could make better OP platforms than a tall industrial chimney. I'd be interested to know if there are any other tall structures (7 or 8 levels) that could be modelled to fully exploit this better. With the Brandenburg Gate there is also the potential to create a pretty tall OP.

3 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

From my experience every model mesh changes need beeing adapted in META as well (bounding/hit boxes etc). So not quite so trivial as long as META keeps its secrets I guess.

Yes if we are concerned about absolute playability, less so if it's just for eye candy. The bunkers, trenches and foxholes are already so extrapolated from reality that I feel trying out experiments with them to improve how they can look and maybe function is all we can hope for. Their mechanics are just not good. I'm personally prepared to suffer some oddness with their outer structure if they can just look a bit better in a scenario. Sort of like your wormhole bunker sitting more comfortably in the ground, it just improves how I feel about them when I see them in game. Ultimately I know they still don't do what I really want, but they probably never will. 

3 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Outside "extras" (like terrain blending envelope and flavors/doodads) should be less of an issue, maybe depending who´s the parent and what to put in META (or leave it all at zero). 

And this is where I think I can bring something to the table. I'm happy to try and make them look better, whilst I hope your experiments will give us better playability, or to at least see the limits of what's possible.

3 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Can´t tell yet if there´s a solution for wormhole effect. Maybe I/we´ll find something, but could also be it remains an "either or". I personally can live with my "or" since it´s what I´s looking for and now know how to deal with the worms (shielding 0,0,0). Hopefully we get it all done before BFC strikes with a new game engine. lol

Well LOL, I think we got a few more years yet, I think you'll have built a fully fledged time machine before we see a new engine!

3 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

CM trench and FH object types are really strange ones. They´re not "vehicle" like pillboxes but neither pure terrain object types. Odd mix of both but IMO largely non working bad compromise. Ah and yes.... these sandbagged wooden frame structures and mole hills look like crap as well. Whoever invented these doesn´t get a beer from me.

Yeah, equivalent of CM Sinclair C5 - seemed like a good idea at the time ...

Until I made that chimney I had no idea that the bunkers were static vehicles ... why!!!?

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

maybe one could offset the 45 degree rotation but preserve overall size in Blender?

Definitely doable in Blender, but not sure what would happen regarding pixeltruppen occupying it. Again can someone please explain why ... this and some of the other indi buildings are only peaceable at an angle!? Sure it must have been discussed / griped about many times ...

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Elizabeth looks up from her Whitehall Gazette. "Is a blender some kind of mechanical wooden spoon?"

Isn't this what small children were employed to do back in your time? Turn the spit, go up chimneys ... that sort of thing.

[Lucky_Strike]

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Gorgeous model! Don´t forget we can use normal maps for smaller detail things so don´t need actual geometry for everything.

If exported in parts or a whole, one could try flavor objects and then see further. See Aquila´s ruin model for enveloping with visible or invisible working in game objects.

Yeah odd there is no normal maps for a potential game asset. Middle section friezes would definitely benefit from normal maps, just well made textures at present.

The wings should be reasonably straightforward, but the middle section may need to be treated as a skinned flavour object, though a bridge would be better I really don't want to get into that whole other world of pain. We'll see ...

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

If your model turns all black (or washy) in game, then it´s likely the wrong type (2 or 256Bit exclusively) or file is 24Bit, missing the layer entirely. That´s from my understanding ATM.

You're right this is one possibility. As I found to my cost a black object can have several reasons. Alpha channel madness, is it 8-bit or 1-bit? (Who uses 1-bit? even back in 2010 this was old). Missing links in Blender - but I thought the script didn't let us export without textures he says to himself, not quite, it doesn't always know if a texture is there really. Blender can sometimes trick us that the texture is still connected to the material even when it's not and a different material might actually be in use. Blender is not always WYSIWYG! It can trick us. The script also doesn't care if a texture is a bmp or a jpeg or whatever, there's no check. It'll keep catching me out I'm sure 

[Lucky_Strike]

59 minutes ago, quakerparrot67 said:

thank you, l.s., i have it working in the y.e.g. scenario, really cool.

does the 'trouble with siegfried' scenario if cmfb use hedgehogs?  seems like these would be a natural for this mod.  can't wait to see the final set!

You're welcome.

Not sure about the Trouble with Siegfried but you can always modify it in the editor, just don't peek at the force selection or opposition set up zones etc  Or see if someone will kindly edit for you.

[NPye]

Midnight Blues...lol I love messin with PS LUT files. It's great to get cinema type look...

[RockinHarry]

5 hours ago, quakerparrot67 said:

working beautifully in 'you enter  germany', seeing that 'crab' rolling through was really cool! thanks, harry.

 

cheers,

rob

 

Great you got it working Rob! If you like do some related commenting on it feel free to post in thread below. There´s also bits of background info to be found.

 

5 hours ago, quakerparrot67 said:

thank you, l.s., i have it working in the y.e.g. scenario, really cool.

does the 'trouble with siegfried' scenario if cmfb use hedgehogs?  seems like these would be a natural for this mod.  can't wait to see the final set!

I´d a look and it does not. In case you haven´t yet, you can copy over your newly created dragon teeth CMBN mod folder over to CMFB (and the other WW2 titles) data/z as well. Have fun and thanks!

[RockinHarry]

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

I did buildings are about as much as I can get my head around at the moment. Even then there's so much to know about them/their models that I could easily get very distracted.

Yep, don´t get distracted (too much) ATM. I just keep doing my loud thinking sort of if I find or found something that might be for good, future use.

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

I'm actually thinking it's just easier to forget the levels in this than try to make them work since I don't really know much about the workings of the buildings. There are quite a few models that I came across that perhaps could make better OP platforms than a tall industrial chimney. I'd be interested to know if there are any other tall structures (7 or 8 levels) that could be modelled to fully exploit this better. With the Brandenburg Gate there is also the potential to create a pretty tall OP.

Yes, levels is the next league for when figuring out all these inner workings, in case it´s doable at all. Poking in the fog can also be a big time waster if one is not quite so successful. So better focus on those things that at least seem doable ATM. Just place any the indi builds in 2D editor so you can see what height they are actually. I still lack an overview ATM. Didn´t even know until yesterday that we have this factory w chimneys in RT-FR. 

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Yes if we are concerned about absolute playability, less so if it's just for eye candy. The bunkers, trenches and foxholes are already so extrapolated from reality that I feel trying out experiments with them to improve how they can look and maybe function is all we can hope for. Their mechanics are just not good. I'm personally prepared to suffer some oddness with their outer structure if they can just look a bit better in a scenario. Sort of like your wormhole bunker sitting more comfortably in the ground, it just improves how I feel about them when I see them in game. Ultimately I know they still don't do what I really want, but they probably never will. 

Exactly, yes. While I´m at the wooden shelter I also keep doing some experiments with FH/trenches and let you all know about any findings. I still see some potential to make these look and maybe also working "better". One caveat likely will be that it´s then almost all scenario/map maker assets and not usable in QB or missions/maps made earlier. But I just keep seeing benefits.

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

9 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Outside "extras" (like terrain blending envelope and flavors/doodads) should be less of an issue, maybe depending who´s the parent and what to put in META (or leave it all at zero). 

And this is where I think I can bring something to the table. I'm happy to try and make them look better, whilst I hope your experiments will give us better playability, or to at least see the limits of what's possible.

Yep, think all our combined efforts should give us anything playable, whether be mere eye candy or yielding functionality as well. Another thanks to @sbobovyc and @Aquila-SmartWargames (and those I miss mentioning) for making this possible.

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Until I made that chimney I had no idea that the bunkers were static vehicles ... why!!!?

Can only make my guess about that. Beeing in fortification category and purchasable it got to be be a playable unit type category and so it was an obvious choice not making it a neutral terrain object instead..I guess. But that´s a very limiting approach, entirely neglecting that forts in fact can change ownership repeatedly. Also terrain objects do not apply to FOW and there´s likely no data or programming concepts that could change that easily. But I´m not a programmer. So likely all easier said than done.

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

8 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

maybe one could offset the 45 degree rotation but preserve overall size in Blender?

Definitely doable in Blender, but not sure what would happen regarding pixeltruppen occupying it. Again can someone please explain why ... this and some of the other indi buildings are only peaceable at an angle!? Sure it must have been discussed / griped about many times ...

I´ll try doing some testing. Now that I know how to get these exported successfully some new info should pop up soon.

Guess to allow for some variety for when there´s lots of the 45 degree diagonal roads on a map. Some are just variations while some others seem unique. Though diagonal indi builds are somewhat tricky, game play wise (ptroopers path finding and placement/LOS/LOF). Also they got to fit into the 8x8m AS concept. We know one can place any builds at an offset (half slicing a neighboring AS) as well. All might play a role in here.

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Yeah odd there is no normal maps for a potential game asset. Middle section friezes would definitely benefit from normal maps, just well made textures at present.

The wings should be reasonably straightforward, but the middle section may need to be treated as a skinned flavour object, though a bridge would be better I really don't want to get into that whole other world of pain. We'll see ...

Yep, all seems doable. But who´s the time for all this ATM? lol

So would be cool if we could draw more wannabe Blender artist into all of this. Required info is on the table and keeps beeing maintained, here and at other forum places.

5 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

You're right this is one possibility. As I found to my cost a black object can have several reasons. Alpha channel madness, is it 8-bit or 1-bit? (Who uses 1-bit? even back in 2010 this was old). Missing links in Blender - but I thought the script didn't let us export without textures he says to himself, not quite, it doesn't always know if a texture is there really. Blender can sometimes trick us that the texture is still connected to the material even when it's not and a different material might actually be in use. Blender is not always WYSIWYG! It can trick us. The script also doesn't care if a texture is a bmp or a jpeg or whatever, there's no check. It'll keep catching me out I'm sure 

Just noticed I used wrong terms. It´s actually 2 colors (plain black or white) or 256 grey scale tones needed.

Yep, Blender scripts are imperfect. As said wanted to bring that to sbobovyc´s attention, just when he vanished and got busy elsewhere. But material name (not texture name) is key and that is what got stored in MDR files. One can work around this, but still got to dig some more into Blender 2.79 peculiarities for better understanding. That for more precise preparation so exports will always be successful.

[RockinHarry]

5 hours ago, NPye said:

Midnight Blues...lol I love messin with PS LUT files. It's great to get cinema type look...

Think I also saw some related FX in ReShade, but haven´t tried these out yet. Lots of cool (or hot) looking stuff indeed.

[NPye]

43 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

Think I also saw some related FX in ReShade, but haven´t tried these out yet. Lots of cool (or hot) looking stuff indeed.

Yeh this is Photoshop wish I could do in game.... Cheers bud

[Warts 'n' all]

10 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Isn't this what small children were employed to do back in your time? Turn the spit, go up chimneys ... that sort of thing.

By coincidence I'm reading Pepys at the moment. He began his famous diary a couple of years after Noddlehead died and would sometimes beat his servants if they failed in their duties. That was when he wasn't chasing skirt around London and Westminster.

[Lucky_Strike]

11 hours ago, NPye said:

Midnight Blues...lol I love messin with PS LUT files. It's great to get cinema type look...

Fantastic moonlight atmosphere, I can almost here Ole Blue Eyes himself crooning in the ... oops that's something else altogether.

LUTs are great things - I know you don't have ReShade (sorry to rub salt in the wound and repeating what Harry said) but I have to mention that there are lots of FX available for that which also use LUTs, great for atmosphere, tiny file size and little to no discernible hit on framerates.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Lucky_Strike

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, Warts 'n' all said:

By coincidence I'm reading Pepys at the moment. He began his famous diary a couple of years after Noddlehead died and would sometimes beat his servants if they failed in their duties. That was when he wasn't chasing skirt around London and Westminster.

And he was enlightened ...!