Berlin CMRT Map

[RockinHarry]

1 hour ago, NPye said:

Cheers I made that up in Garageband...it's not very long if you dm your email i'll send it to you. Cheers  Sound files very useful. Cheers

Thanks mate! I´d just downloaded both the above YT files and made some test loop in Audacity. I´ll likely pick several loop sections for different purposes if needed. So ones for more rural, urban or forest type of ambiences. For now I dump in background day combat.wav and see how it sounds in game. I guess you´ll add your sound file for Berlin V2 as well?

Edit: Here´s a quick loop (not properly X-faded near ends yet) but gives an impression for ingame ambience. Volume is halfway between rather subtle and blasting your speakers (-16dB RMS). Replaces "background day combat.wav".

https://www.dropbox.com/s/igd5v27mdez2f97/background day combat.zip?dl=0

Another snippet from the Berlin WW2 ambience YT video. More violent and appropriate eastern front weapon sounds. Also goes to CMRT data/z. Just a test file, 2 minutes long 22MB.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aabgbu4da5p676i/background day combat_Berlin version.zip?dl=0

Edited October 17, 2022 by RockinHarry

[RockinHarry]

4 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Cool! Do like a PaK 40 mounted on something entirely inappropriate - still waiting for the Raupenschlepper Ost PaK 40 ... maybe in a vehicle pack.

Speaking of wonderful adaptations. I was browsing through PanzerWrecks' book Panzers in Berlin 1945 (highly recommended by the way) and noticed quite a few Panzer IV hulks being used a makeshift bunkers similar to the commonly depicted Pantherturm.

Basically an older Panzer IV minus wheels etc concreted into the ground or hastily buried in concrete and rubble, so ... with a couple of 1m deep ditchlocked squares and some tinkering in Blender ...

Has to be immobilised for obvious reasons - can't have this driving around trashing the roads ...

Still quite a few issues to resolve - shadows from missing/invisible skirts persist, quite a few gaps at the back of her rubble skirt, play testing ...

Lovely stuff! Do I see other your mod files like burned trees and ground tiles here as well?

Some my latest purchases.

 

And in there found a nice pic of this expedient pillbox something. I could well imagine making this a replacement for any the log bunkers maybe? If overall size is similar with original META and crew positions preserved it might get to work? Anybody tried something like that yet?

[NPye]

44 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

And in there found a nice pic of this expedient pillbox something. I could well imagine making this a replacement for any the log bunkers maybe? If overall size is similar with original META and crew positions preserved it might get to work? Anybody tried something like that yet?

 

No but world be cool if usable??

[RockinHarry]

2 hours ago, NPye said:

No but world be cool if usable??

I´d say yes, basically. Loaded some the junk flavors and childed them to be part of the log bunker hull. Thanks @Lucky_Strike for inspiration. This keeps META and other properties intact I believe. So if taking the log shelter bunker as frame and adding various bricks, rubble etc. geometry then we should get similar looks like in the photo above. Functionality shouldn´t be harmed, but need some more elaborate testing then. Some quick test didn´t reveal any issues yet. But there´s not much added in this little example construction.

then also placing it into appropriately (maybe ditch locked) prepared environment. One can imagine I guess.

 

yet some other explorable possibilities maybe?

Edited October 17, 2022 by RockinHarry

[kohlenklau]

In the Berlin photos it seems a few tall lamp posts or streetlights are still standing.

Here is my Blender modified lamp post made extra tall for city boulevard use (...here in Buda, Hungary).

I made it an extra "rock" flavor object. Change that and the modtag as you desire.

Grab it if you want it.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zh0ycpjmb5j7b5r/AADDd9bWrOC3SV-gfDq13wKxa?dl=0

I thought I also made one that was horizontal as a "junk" flavor object but can't seem to find it.

@Lucky_Strike TIP(?): In the above Blender modified flavor object you can see a trick I came to use to help things show up properly in the CM world. I might make something modified from an existing mdr or an outside freeware 3D model. Take a CM rock and plop it in with the new item BUT THEN make a transparent rock bmp. The rock being there seems to "calm down" the new model and have it show at proper elevation.

Edited October 17, 2022 by kohlenklau

[Lucky_Strike]

23 hours ago, JM Stuff said:

Soon I will present you my news wrecks and more for almost all modules,bn fi rt fb bs, bs give me a lot of works, but when you have some wishes tell me that I can added...

Look forward to seeing some of these when ready. 

[Lucky_Strike]

20 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Re deeper trench system I believe it´s the same issue we´d have with deeper foxholes. You can´t push the pixeltroopers deeper down and below the ground mesh. Unless there´s some META data that got to be found yet (I doubt there is any). Here´s the trench when loaded into Blender. One also can make a guess why they´re 2m wide (1m node placement...).

This is something I and @kohlenklau played around with last year? The bottom of the trench can be lowered but there's a limit to what the pixeltruppen will seem to tolerate before they start to clamber out to see and shoot. I made this effort back then:

 

Notice the pixeltruppen are standing - not sure if it's an effect of the trench or the low bocage to their front - I'd have to go and check again, remove the bocage and see what they do. The trench was ditch-locked and the mesh altered to fill the ditch more convincingly.

Like a lot of these models the texture doesn't blend with the surroundings very well, it has a hard edge and there's no mechanics for creating a blend. Same applies to my Panzer IV bunker. It's possible to ameliorate this a bit by using flat mesh additions at the top of the model - like the rubble on the Panzer IV - then a healthy dose of flavour objects as camouflage for the edges. The only place the trench blends is at its ends. Flavor object camo netting might be good for trenches as well ...

Anyway I do believe we can improve the trenches a bit but I think foxholes are much more complex, they certainly don't seem to want to behave in the same way.

21 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

This works with -2m ditch locks as well but TacAI pathfinding doesn´t like it as it always seeks LOF/LOS outside this construction and moves always few pixeltroopers out onto the edges. But I will do some further experiments with that and maybe find out some more.

Yes I think we found the same issue, 1m is as much as they seem to accept, beyond that and out they jump.

20 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Think spotting comes always from the soldier models eye level likely as beeing defined within their MDS files maybe.

Yes, and with the abstraction which is built into trenches and foxholes to compensate to them being at ground level we don't get much wiggle room to improve their looks - 1m.

20 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

I could imagine that maybe when making the bocage object invisible, then you just get the terrain deformation from it. Combine that with a flavor object of your choice, then we might get something like you mentioned.

I tried invisible bocage at the front of the Panzer IV bunker. Issues were that there's not much terrain deformation, not anything like the tall bocage; placement close to it is very difficult to achieve, the vehicle tends to rear upwards and sit right on it or just remains further back. It was essentially tidier and easier to place the vehicle in the ditch without the bocage mound in front but instead hide some rubble wall at the front which probably offers some enhanced cover. The origin of the Panzer IV was also lowered, so he's hull down, I don't know how far I can push it, I tried twice and at the second depth he lost LOS down the street ahead. I just wanted to see if it could be made to look good and functional first. I'll try some experiments now with some target practice.

I do still think we can do something with the bocage in terms of barriers since pixeltruppen can go right up close to it. Also could be used as say AT gun position, felled tree, PaK 40, you get the idea, stick it at the edge of some woods, camouflaged emplacement ... nice

[Lucky_Strike]

11 hours ago, NPye said:

Morning... Awoke to this new idea... love it bud, inspired me to do something with that destroyed wall...u are bringing great stuff to the table old boi. Cheers

Yes got a bit distracted from Dragon's Teeth, what was it they used to say on my school reports ... easily distracted ...

8 hours ago, NPye said:

Another new edition Pzkpfw VA Panther, texturised and made into Muncheberg Panzer Division style.

Tasty!

[NPye]

26 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Like a lot of these models the texture doesn't blend with the surroundings very well, it has a hard edge and there's no mechanics for creating a blend. Same applies to my Panzer IV bunker. It's possible to ameliorate this a bit by using flat mesh additions at the top of the model - like the rubble on the Panzer IV - then a healthy dose of flavour objects as camouflage for the edges. The only place the trench blends is at its ends. Flavor object camo netting might be good for trenches as well ...

Love it, 1 thing could the stretched section be filled with more wood, not a biggy and I would love the sandbags gone also, maybe this would help the height issue with troops also. 

 

4 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

In the Berlin photos it seems a few tall lamp posts or streetlights are still standing.

 

Cheers bud...

[NPye]

5 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

yet some other explorable possibilities maybe?

 

Love the 1st one?????

[NPye]

Another... Pzkw IV Late H now made in same style for Battle for Berlin mod, Muncheberg panzer Division.

[Lucky_Strike]

8 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Lovely stuff! Do I see other your mod files like burned trees and ground tiles here as well?

Yes sir. It's nearly ready just need to figure a couple of things out then it can be released for folks to try out.

8 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Some my latest purchases.

That's the Rathaus isn't it, I remember having a nice pizza near there. Absolutely freezing when I was there.

8 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

And in there found a nice pic of this expedient pillbox something. I could well imagine making this a replacement for any the log bunkers maybe? If overall size is similar with original META and crew positions preserved it might get to work? Anybody tried something like that yet?

Arrrggghh - more distractions. Yes we must do something about the bunkers.

5 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

then also placing it into appropriately (maybe ditch locked) prepared environment. One can imagine I guess.

That's the spirit - You could even completely replace some of the logs completely with other materials, possibly rubble walls and girders covered is brick rubble or concrete slabs. They should still retain the same protection property as the original log structures. And making the turfed ones should also be possible, think ditch-locked with a much wider deformed shape, sloping sides/roof that is covered with a ground texture, then some doodads copied in as well to add some vegetation effects. Would need to be careful of alpha channels as the bunkers likely use a 1-bit channel. There's surely a way to do this ...

[Lucky_Strike]

5 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

@Lucky_Strike TIP(?): In the above Blender modified flavor object you can see a trick I came to use to help things show up properly in the CM world. I might make something modified from an existing mdr or an outside freeware 3D model. Take a CM rock and plop it in with the new item BUT THEN make a transparent rock bmp. The rock being there seems to "calm down" the new model and have it show at proper elevation.

Useful thanks. I haven't had problems yet with with stuff floating. My biggest issue with my Panzer IV bunker is the very off shadows from skirts. The skirts meshes are deleted from the model AND their bmp is completely transparent but still the shadows are there. I have to revisit the base model anyway 'cos its textures are also misbehaving so hopefully can get it sorted in version 2. Just occurred to me ... do any of the other games feature Panzer IVs without skirts? I am using the late G from CMRT as my base model but if there's a G elsewhere without skirts that would be ideal .. off to explore CMFI me thinks.

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, NPye said:

Love it, 1 thing could the stretched section be filled with more wood, not a biggy and I would love the sandbags gone also, maybe this would help the height issue with troops also. 

Yes the textures were never finalised, it was just an experiment to see what could be done. There are a lot of different shaped sections for trenches so quite a bit of work. I'd like to remake them sometime. Just not sure when I'll get to them. But for sure the textures would be improved and replace the sandbags - rubble for Berlin me thinks. Removing the sandbags won't help with the height issues 'cos that's probably hardcoded either in our mysterious metadata or elsewhere in the game engine, no doubt a big lookup list somewhere that is referenced to calculate LOS LOF hits etc.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Lucky_Strike

[Lucky_Strike]

1 hour ago, NPye said:

Another... Pzkw IV Late H now made in same style for Battle for Berlin mod, Muncheberg panzer Division.

Great stuff - I can see there are persistent skirt shadows on your mod as well. Masked turret skirt but shadows still there - very frustrating.

[Lucky_Strike]

6 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

I want to make this!

Maybe with a door like this at the back ....

[Lucky_Strike]

1 minute ago, Lucky_Strike said:

I want to make this!

Maybe with a door like this at the back ....

Oh boy! - someone's made a Blender one ....

https://blendswap.com/blend/12451

 

[RockinHarry]

11 minutes ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Oh boy! - someone's made a Blender one ....

https://blendswap.com/blend/12451

 

Lol Now we get a CM: Middle Earth coming as well

Darn, just reached my likes limit again. Great stuff going on here.

Edited October 17, 2022 by RockinHarry

[Artkin]

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

This is something I and @kohlenklau played around with last year? The bottom of the trench can be lowered but there's a limit to what the pixeltruppen will seem to tolerate before they start to clamber out to see and shoot. I made this effort back then:

 

WOW!!!! BIG IMPROVEMENT!!! This is a must have.

What about possibly raising the trench if you are running into issues? Is that possible? The trench would retain its properties, and look better. It would look good in the ditch locking, though it looks perfect already.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Artkin

[NPye]

Muncheberg PD Nashorn....

Edited October 17, 2022 by NPye

[RockinHarry]

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

This is something I and @kohlenklau played around with last year? The bottom of the trench can be lowered but there's a limit to what the pixeltruppen will seem to tolerate before they start to clamber out to see and shoot. I made this effort back then:

 

Notice the pixeltruppen are standing - not sure if it's an effect of the trench or the low bocage to their front - I'd have to go and check again, remove the bocage and see what they do. The trench was ditch-locked and the mesh altered to fill the ditch more convincingly.

Like a lot of these models the texture doesn't blend with the surroundings very well, it has a hard edge and there's no mechanics for creating a blend. Same applies to my Panzer IV bunker. It's possible to ameliorate this a bit by using flat mesh additions at the top of the model - like the rubble on the Panzer IV - then a healthy dose of flavour objects as camouflage for the edges. The only place the trench blends is at its ends. Flavor object camo netting might be good for trenches as well ...

Anyway I do believe we can improve the trenches a bit but I think foxholes are much more complex, they certainly don't seem to want to behave in the same way.

Yes I think we found the same issue, 1m is as much as they seem to accept, beyond that and out they jump.

Yes, and with the abstraction which is built into trenches and foxholes to compensate to them being at ground level we don't get much wiggle room to improve their looks - 1m.

I tried invisible bocage at the front of the Panzer IV bunker. Issues were that there's not much terrain deformation, not anything like the tall bocage; placement close to it is very difficult to achieve, the vehicle tends to rear upwards and sit right on it or just remains further back. It was essentially tidier and easier to place the vehicle in the ditch without the bocage mound in front but instead hide some rubble wall at the front which probably offers some enhanced cover. The origin of the Panzer IV was also lowered, so he's hull down, I don't know how far I can push it, I tried twice and at the second depth he lost LOS down the street ahead. I just wanted to see if it could be made to look good and functional first. I'll try some experiments now with some target practice.

I do still think we can do something with the bocage in terms of barriers since pixeltruppen can go right up close to it. Also could be used as say AT gun position, felled tree, PaK 40, you get the idea, stick it at the edge of some woods, camouflaged emplacement ... nice

Now that´s brilliant and good looking as well! Thanks to both you and @kohlenklau

Yes, the mentioned 1m grid and nodes limitation as well as the TacAI base behavior of always wanting to gain some LOS/LOF to its environment is the things to keep in mind. Think for my further testing I got to disable the animation mod again as it´s always on with my games. Gives a clearer picture of things when the TacAI is less "under control" so to say.

Re trenches I´d likely go as "simple" as possible within given game engine constraints and with regard to possible map environments (rural, urban, forest etc). So a one for all solution might fit better then overally and give more flexibility. Means NO sandbags and NO fancy stuff like camo nets and such. Though adding explicitely made stuff with flavors could give enough alterations to make these look according to individual player tastes and preferences. Also adding mod tagged variations (or alternatives) could be way to go IMO. So I´d go personally more something like this maybe (without the dead german )

Re terrain alterations, did you discover the power of "foot path" placement yet? Similar to normal wide roads they do flatten the placement AS  (beside making impassable terrain passable) though in much finer ways. So one can "add" about half a meter of ground mesh height to a ditchlocked AS. There´s numerous variations depending on whether one uses + or - ditch locks, both in black and blue modes. And off course depending upon placement AS terrain type. There´s the smoothing ones like mud and crop fields, with the pavement types rather giving sharp terrain spikes beeing at the opposite end, for fine tuning the ground terrain mesh. The "foot paths" give many explorable and usable options here.

Yes the bocage and its auto generated berm has its limits. Hard to tell if it´s some hard coded behavior (pixeltroopers nicely lining up there) or just the TacAI´s desire to use best possible "cover" which the berm definitely is (ground mesh) in the game.

Here´s some pics of described methods. Used a PAK40 with barrel slightly above ground level. The pak and crew get some fairly good cover (vs direct fire) while preserving LOS/LOF principally. Also works with the big barn doors like 88 and similar.

view from the target

and map editor setup

 

[kohlenklau]

An old video of 1942 trench experiments at Bir Hakeim...

I remember that the MMG or HMG didn't like this modified trench.

[RockinHarry]

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Yes sir. It's nearly ready just need to figure a couple of things out then it can be released for folks to try out.

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

That's the Rathaus isn't it, I remember having a nice pizza near there. Absolutely freezing when I was there.

Guess it is yes. Just started reading. Haven´t even looked at the attached map folders inlayed with the book. I hope for some detailed frontline positions and such in case I´d tackle some (parts of) Breslau map anytime soon. (yep...all that distractions)

2 hours ago, Lucky_Strike said:

That's the spirit - You could even completely replace some of the logs completely with other materials, possibly rubble walls and girders covered is brick rubble or concrete slabs. They should still retain the same protection property as the original log structures. And making the turfed ones should also be possible, think ditch-locked with a much wider deformed shape, sloping sides/roof that is covered with a ground texture, then some doodads copied in as well to add some vegetation effects. Would need to be careful of alpha channels as the bunkers likely use a 1-bit channel. There's surely a way to do this ...

Yes I´d guess so it does. As long as overall sizes is the same then coinciding with what´s in the META possibly. Think one also got to keep in mind that child objects almost always have their own META data beeing used for all the (yet) unknown things.

1 hour ago, Lucky_Strike said:

Useful thanks. I haven't had problems yet with with stuff floating. My biggest issue with my Panzer IV bunker is the very off shadows from skirts. The skirts meshes are deleted from the model AND their bmp is completely transparent but still the shadows are there. I have to revisit the base model anyway 'cos its textures are also misbehaving so hopefully can get it sorted in version 2. Just occurred to me ... do any of the other games feature Panzer IVs without skirts? I am using the late G from CMRT as my base model but if there's a G elsewhere without skirts that would be ideal .. off to explore CMFI me thinks.

Before we had the Blender scripts I (we all) did that hex editor hacking the mdr files. When I tried placing some the games trees beeing a new flavor I had similar issues with shadows of geometry that shouldn´t be recognized actually. Can´t quite recall how I´d solved that. It was possibly reassigning to renamed texture file and maybe switching between 2 and 256 Bit alphas maybe. Or vice versa. Also might have had something to do with META again. Got to have a look at my saved CMFB files. Maybe I´ll remember and then might solve your P-IV skirts issue.

[RockinHarry]

7 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

An old video of 1942 trench experiments at Bir Hakeim...

I remember that the MMG or HMG didn't like this modified trench.

Guess they wanted jumping out and/or had no LOS/LOF? I really hate these above ground forts constructions BFC implemented in the games.

[Lucky_Strike]

5 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Now that´s brilliant and good looking as well! Thanks to both you and @kohlenklau

Thanks Harry.

5 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Re trenches I´d likely go as "simple" as possible within given game engine constraints and with regard to possible map environments (rural, urban, forest etc). So a one for all solution might fit better then overally and give more flexibility. Means NO sandbags and NO fancy stuff like camo nets and such. Though adding explicitely made stuff with flavors could give enough alterations to make these look according to individual player tastes and preferences. Also adding mod tagged variations (or alternatives) could be way to go IMO. So I´d go personally more something like this maybe (without the dead german )

Yes those are the trenches that I'd like to see in game as well, though definitely without the gruesome duck board. There are definitely additions we can make to the parapets and area around the trench artwork that will improve how it looks. I can imagine having several version for different terrains/seasons, and with more or less preparedness. So start with the basic dirt slit trench - as narrow as it'll go until the game won't tolerate it anymore then build out from there. I do remember pixeltruppen ended up buried in the parapets when it got narrow - I don't recall action points so they must be coded in somewhere. 

5 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Re terrain alterations, did you discover the power of "foot path" placement yet? Similar to normal wide roads they do flatten the placement AS  (beside making impassable terrain passable) though in much finer ways. So one can "add" about half a meter of ground mesh height to a ditchlocked AS. There´s numerous variations depending on whether one uses + or - ditch locks, both in black and blue modes. And off course depending upon placement AS terrain type. There´s the smoothing ones like mud and crop fields, with the pavement types rather giving sharp terrain spikes beeing at the opposite end, for fine tuning the ground terrain mesh. The "foot paths" give many explorable and usable options here.

No I haven't - certainly something I'll have to mess about with. I think I tried them for Normandy sunken lanes but that is about all.

6 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Yes the bocage and its auto generated berm has its limits. Hard to tell if it´s some hard coded behavior (pixeltroopers nicely lining up there) or just the TacAI´s desire to use best possible "cover" which the berm definitely is (ground mesh) in the game.

Here´s some pics of described methods. Used a PAK40 with barrel slightly above ground level. The pak and crew get some fairly good cover (vs direct fire) while preserving LOS/LOF principally. Also works with the big barn doors like 88 and similar.

I suspect the AI knows it's a good bit of cover and concealment - pretty impervious to small arms, just vulnerable to various HE on the whole.

5 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Just started reading. Haven´t even looked at the attached map folders inlayed with the book. I hope for some detailed frontline positions and such in case I´d tackle some (parts of) Breslau map anytime soon. (yep...all that distractions)

I must try to find something in English about the Breslau siege. I thought I had something but it's all just general stuff, nothing specific. Lots about Budapest, and a couple of other festung type sieges like Posen and Konigsburg.

5 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Yes I´d guess so it does. As long as overall sizes is the same then coinciding with what´s in the META possibly. Think one also got to keep in mind that child objects almost always have their own META data beeing used for all the (yet) unknown things.

Size is likely to be an issue since the ditch deforms the terrain around the subject, so trying to fill that space to make it look more blended with the landscape usually necessitates a lot of packing. But the game will ignore this for spotting and hits since the model doesn't, or rather, can't impact that so far as I know. 

5 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

hex editor hacking the mdr files

Could never get my noodle around this stuff - I looked at it when Kohlenklau was doing some changes to the mds files by way of hex editing. Got as far as looking at a file in the hex editor, made my head hurt ... 

5 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

I really hate these above ground forts constructions BFC implemented in the games.

Amen to that!