AI & Water

[Canuck21]

Ok, having a little problem I'm hoping people can help me with. My guys (under the AI plan) are starting in the water - deep and shallow fords to be exact. I've given them the command via the AI to dash for the beaches. I have confirmed that the terrain is indeed, fords. The times are set in Setup for each group at 00:00 and 00:00, although I did experiment with 00:00 / 30:30 just to be sure. The problem is, they don't move. Even when not under fire, they just stand there. They aren't being triggered or anything like that (no triggers in this scenario), so it's not like they are waiting for that. I had one group start from land and they went ahead right away as ordered, while the others in the water just stood there. Is there anything anywhere that says you can't start troops from in the water? I've searched for something like that in the manual but it just says (that I could see) that Infantry can traverse both deep and shallow fords.

After several tries, I switched sides and gave the guys in the water a FAST move command on the first turn and they took off just as ordered, so I know the basic setup is right. Thus the confusion.

Thanks much.

[E5K]

Are you starting them out in a friendly setup zone ?

[MikeyD]

I just did a (very) quick test and everything worked properly, the guys rushed up to the beach to their AI commands. I'm about to ask a dumb question so please forgiven me. If your guys with AI orders are Blue are you playing the scenario from the Red side so the Blue guys will use the AI orders? If you play Blue to watch your Blue guys in action they'll just sit and wait for your orders. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by MikeyD

[Falaise]

5 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

I just did a (very) quick test and everything worked properly, the guys rushed up to the beach to their AI commands. I'm about to ask a dumb question so please forgiven me. If your guys with AI orders are Blue are you playing the scenario from the Red site so the Blue guys will use the AI orders? If you play Blue to watch your Blue guys in action they'll just sit and wait for your orders. 

haha we feel experience !

[Canuck21]

@Erwin - Yup, they are. Good thought though. 

@MikeyD - Not a dumb question at all! If I had a nickel for every time I've done that, I could buy Battlefront   . However, I just checked and no, the plans are for the Allies, who are the ones in the water. BUT, I tried moving one of them to a new setup on the shore and they still just stood there, so I think the premise is correct. It does seem like they don't have a plan to go with, so I need to look into that deeper. The plan is for the Allies, but it looks like there is a disconnect there somewhere. The fact that your test proved they should move, narrows things down a bunch for me. I'll go back and troubleshoot this further, but at least I have an idea where to look now.

Thanks people  .

[MikeyD]

Does this resemble your AI orders?

Note I didn't give the group a painted setup placement. that anchors them where they are on the map at startup. Order 2 is their destination

[Canuck21]

Found the answer. In the General forum I posted a question asking someone to confirm that infantry could move through barbed wire. In the manual it states that wire will slow infantry down, but not stop them. @Sgt Joch told me that no, infantry cannot move through wire. I have wire strung along the beach from edge to edge (yep, it's a beach landing I'm simulating  ). So I removed the wire and tried it again. Worked perfectly. Everyone started running to where they should. I thought they might at least run up to the wire and stop, but no, they "saw" the wire and decided they would rather stay in the water instead . Chickensh*ts <LOL>. Anyway, the issue is solved. Many thanks for the ideas here  .

[Canuck21]

Thanks @MikeyD. See my answer above. Yeah, my stuff does look very similar to yours. Except I had wire. My troops don't like wire. They are very fussy. I moved the wire. They are happy now (well, maybe not "happy" exactly. They are getting the crap shot out of them ). Thank you for this though  .

[kohlenklau]

Maybe do this. Keep the wire for most of your beach length but use a crater or 2 and leave no wire there at the craters? Like the bombardment took it out or a bangalore torpedo from a previous attack...whatever sounds plausible.

[kohlenklau]

I tagged you to an old thread called Trying to get AI engineers to blow a hole in barbed wire

[Canuck21]

Thanks for this. Yeah, I've strung out the wire a bit and alternated the depth of them, so I think we're good now. I thought about the engineers but this scenario doesn't call for them. This one is historically accurate so I'm trying to stick to the actual facts as much as possible. In the real situation, the infantry had Bangalore's that did the job, but they aren't specified (that I know of) for this one. That said though, the thread you tagged me in will be very helpful down the road  . 

[Canuck21]

So, now that I have that sorted out, this scenario is coming along very nicely. The timing is a bit tricky with the AI (there are AI plans for both sides here). I'll be putting out a "caution" for people when they go to download it in case they'd rather not. There are a couple of conventions that I've broken in this one that some may not like, but there is a very good reason I did. The biggest one is that both sides open the scenario in each other's line of sight. Unlike a couple of the others I've done, this one starts hot and fast. More to come.

[Combatintman]

13 hours ago, Canuck21 said:

So, now that I have that sorted out, this scenario is coming along very nicely. The timing is a bit tricky with the AI (there are AI plans for both sides here). I'll be putting out a "caution" for people when they go to download it in case they'd rather not. There are a couple of conventions that I've broken in this one that some may not like, but there is a very good reason I did. The biggest one is that both sides open the scenario in each other's line of sight. Unlike a couple of the others I've done, this one starts hot and fast. More to come.

Generally it is bad form/bad practice to have both sides in each other's line of sight but in some scenarios it is unavoidable - so long as you make it clearer than a very clear thing in the briefing then you're ok.

[Canuck21]

4 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

Generally it is bad form/bad practice to have both sides in each other's line of sight

... Sure is! It tends to get a lot of people quite dead in a hurry . In this case it's warranted. I will be spelling it out in the briefings as you suggest of course, but basically it's part of the beach landings in Operation Husky. Those tend to be in plain sight of the enemy as you know, and they tend to be extremely costly. In this particular battle though, IRL it wasn't bad as the beaches were not heavily defended in this region. However, this particular section was defended and while casualties weren't heavy, they certainly could have been. My play testing is telling me that the casualties are a tad heavier than what actually happened, but not unreasonable for the situation, which I was happy to see. I have made some small adjustments to the forces to balance things a bit. One thing's for sure, if you're playing the Italians, you'll freak when you see what's coming, but it serves to prove that you need a LOT of attackers to dig out a semi-fortified defender. It will be tough for anyone playing the Italians to win, but as there is an exit zone in this one (which I just put in), the balance is actually not that bad. Unless you consider being dead as "bad". Points seem to matter a bit less in those situations...