CMBO is the best game

[caralampio]

You know I've come back to the CM games after quite a hiatus, I've been playing missions from all three, and with a fresh outlook I find that Beyond Overlord is the best GAME. I'm not saying that BB or AK are bad games, but they are better as simulations. I think the relationship is like that of Squad Leader and Advanced Squad Leader. ASL is a great simulation, but SL was much more fun.

Some advantages I find in CMBO (from a "beer and pretzels" point of view) are these:

1.- Colors. BO has bright, somewhat pastel colors, not too realistic but pleasant and restful to the eye. There is more constrast with the units. BB and AK may have more realistic colors, but overall they are pretty drab.

2.- Overview 3. In CMBO level 3 view is in the exact position for a perfect blend of unit managing and panoramic view, truly a working view. In the other games level 3 is "a bit too high" for my taste, while level 2 is too close.

3.- In CMBO soldiers obey orders! At least they try to the best of their ability. In CMBB and CMAK it seems like you can't get infantry to do what you want, for love or money. They just like to sneak sneak sneak.

It might be more realistic but it's boring to issue your troops an order ("DID I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR, PRIVATE!") just to see them immediately cancel your orders (under authority of whom?) and give themselves a new order to sneak, usually towards the most ridiculous positions, to a place 100 meters away, or towards the enemy!

You patiently cancel all those sneaky-sneakers and reissue your orders. Guess what? Next turn they are all sneaking again to wherever they want.

In CMBO, a unit might pin, but as soon as possible they are back on the track doing as told.

4.- Explosions. CMBO explosions ROCK, literally. They make an impressive kaboom!!! In the other games explosions are kind of muffled.

Just wanted to get it off my chest

[junk2drive]

Shock waves are good.

Artillery is better.

Mods make it look better.

I don't use most of the commands in AK BB.

I lose at at all three games but BO is more fun while I am losing.

[flamingknives]

In CMBO:

Artillery is instant magic death storm that any unit can call down.

Infantry are fanatic suicide squads who do whatever you tell them, however ridiculous your orders.

Machine guns suck.

All tank-vs-tank engagements are insta-kill.

BB and AK are a little less cut-and-dried, there's always something you can do.

[Tifosi]

My tuppence worth,

I got all three CM games in a single pack ("CM:Anthologies") and CMBO was the last one I actually looked at. I wish I had looked at it earlier as it is a great starting place, especially if (like me) you are new to the genre.

Sure, BB and AK are superior "simulations" but BO is a great place to cut your teeth so to speak. The far more simplistic command options, and the fact that units tend to do exactly what you tell them to, make it a better game in many ways to learn the basics of this type of fighting.

Then when you do progress to BB/AK with the far more in depth command lists and less "suicidal" infantry etc, you have a better grasp of the actual tactics and so forth.

A better understanding of what I actually needed my forces to do/not do made learning the intricacies of the enhanced commands etc less of a nightmare than it was when I jumped straight in.

Having said that, a lot of stuff that works in CMBO in terms of some of the more "gamey" approaches you can take, seem not to transfer well to BB/AK. But you see what I'm getting at, right?

[Pzman]

Yes CMBO is the "game" in the idea of it being more of a game than a sim, that much is true. With that in mind, I took CMBO off my hard drive this last spring, most likely once and for all. No bad, it was on there for about five years. BTW Junk, you might do better if you learn how to use those other commands.

[roqf77]

i agree, cmak an cmbb are harder but i find them more satisfying. cmbo is fun but it isnt as good certainly atleast as a simulation.

[junk2drive]

It all depends on how you want to spend your leisure time.

I don't have the patience for checking every unit, every turn, to an obsessive level as suggested in some "how to" threads.

I have started many a battle in BB and AK that were way over my head in tactics. And quit.

[roqf77]

true. but then again i gt fed up with the uber dumb ai in cmbo. which 9 times out of ten if it has the choice out of shooting at the other tank shooting at it or firing at a crew 500 yards away, chooses the crew.

[Skolman]

I think CMBO is much better for quick battles !

In BB and AK you have so many settings, that it´s very hard to arrange a balanced game.

[securityguard]

Originally posted by Skolman:

I think CMBO is much better for quick battles !

In BB and AK you have so many settings, that it´s very hard to arrange a balanced game.

Not really, it's just as easy to make a battle as gamey as CMBO is. Even CMBO had 'rules' made up by the players to create balanced battles, since the game wasn't inherently balanced.

However it is true that CMBO is far more a 'game' than it is a 'simulation'. Thus making a balanced battle in CMBB and CMAK a little harder, since there are more variables for disaster than success. I suppose that makes it a simulation since you don't have many options many times, even in a perfectly matched up battle.

I've been playing CM series for years now and while I agree CMBO is easier to play, I guess I don't find easier = more fun. Totally different strokes for different folks.

[HeinzBaby]

Rather a cheeky heading..lol

I really don't know to what extent how or what gamey is or means. Correct tactics does produce killer results, errors will get you hammered.

I certainly don't look down on BO when comparing to BB or AK. I know BO is more 'black and white' with results (gamey?) yes, but for me these are all still PC games to while away the evening with.

I find what has kept this series alive for so long is the talent that has gone into mods and more so the out pouring of senario design, gawd, the dedication to get it right is astonishing.

Depending on my mood and current focus of interest you'll find me in Russia one week, perhaps Lybia or Normandy the next...

[Skolman]

CMBO is easier for beginners for sure !

...and back then it was the most realistic game available (until BB came out)

For me personally CMBO has a big nostalgia factor.

All these memories...

[flamingknives]

I prefer the later games as certain things, like modelling behind armour effect, iron out the outliers. Weak-spot penetration of a Tiger by a 37mm? Always a kill in CMBO, often ineffective in CMBB/AK.

[Grapeshot]

Cmbo is much better than the other two on saturday night after doing damage on a bottle of vodka.

[General Bolt]

CMBO = 3rd best game ever. Minesweeper and freecell in 1 and 2 spots.

[juan_gigante]

Damn, Colt, it's great to meet another Minesweeper player. Nobody ever gives it the respect it deserves. About five years ago I got a new computer I didn't put any games on it for about a month and a half and just played minesweeper. And it is great to use as a distraction while you're trying to get work done.

My high scores on my old computer were

Beginner: 6 seconds

Intermediate: 33 seconds

Advanced: 88 seconds

Now I again have a new computer, and I haven't made my way back to there yet, but I'm working at it. I think I'm actually going to take a screenshot of my best times screen on the old computer before it becomes my sister's, just so I can remember the good old days.

[Soddball]

I had more long-lasting fun with CM:BO than with CM:BB. Magua's Normandy mods, Tanks Alot's awesome vehicle mods - the upgraded graphics turned that game from an ugly fun game into a beautiful fun game. It was almost fun to watch my tanks get blasted apart.

It's also easier to play by a long shot. I found CM:BB the toughest. For toughness, try advancing conscript Romanians through heavy snow against dug-in Russians. Fun it is not - unless your idea of fun is 65 turns to advance 800m.

CM:AK put alot of the fun back into the game - being able to play the 'good guys', and with the updated ballistics engine and the significantly improved models and graphics.

[juan_gigante]

I bought CMAK just so I could play CMBO with the updated engine.

[melb_will]

Soddball has bought up mods.

As I have found out i have a windows copy of BO on the Mac CD i am about to get back into BO. I never really modded up my original copy and any mods I had are long since lost on the old computer.

What mods are the best in your opinion. I used to use the Bulge mod which was beautiful but what else?

I need terrain mods at the very least, what are your recommendations.

[junk2drive]

At cmmods get the latest CMMOS and CMMOS mods.

I use DD's field and stream with Desert Fox's grass and a few of Ed Kinney's bits.

[melb_will]

thanks for that j2j

cheers

Will

[Soddball]

Seconded on DD's work, the Field & Stream is truly superb. Juju's buildings and anything by Magua.

[Philippe]

Just to clarify a very minor point, "Field and Stream" was the global terrain change section of my CMMOS terrain edition. It doesn't apply to any one particular modder's work, just to my edition of all of their terrain work. What Juju's Field and Stream or DD's Field and Stream actually means is "the sum total of mods by Juju that can be accessed through the Field and Stream edition".

If you go into the F&S control panel you'll find that each modder has an F&S mod -- that is tongue in cheek, however. F&S exists for two reasons: to save you a bit of work if you can't be bothered to go into "Leaves of Grass", "Wet and Wild", and "Shrubbery" to make individualized selections; and to allow you to build your own favorite mix and match set, save them, and invoke them at the touch of a button. That's what those icons along the bottom of F&S are for.

One of the driving forces behind Field and Stream, by the way, was the realization that many mods would ultimately be lost when their host sites went down. Number one priority was to make sure that Magua's mod got preserved no matter what. It's sad to see that the same kind of thinking will need to be applied to preserving scenarios now that the Depot is gone.

[Lane]

I am having fun playing CMBO again I installed it

on my new pc. I can play the large battles now.

I have installed CMMOS ver 4.03 and all the rule

sets far CMBO just added a few mod's so far

Andrew fox's german uniform's Panzertruppen's

buildings and night crawler's sound mod. nice sound's now. I have been playing the battle

All or nothing 75 turns. played twice and Lost

but having fun playing this battle.

Has anybody took the German town or the secondary bridge.

Got to add some more armor mods for the Allied

side added the Churchill close support tank look's great

Regards

Lane

[junk2drive]

Good point Lane.

Anyone who played BO years ago on a 500mhz computer and now they have a faster rig, can try the larger battles and ops that they missed out on then.