NATO Forces Severely Over-Equipped?

[Sgt.Squarehead]

We've already seen the various issues Germany has been facing finding equipment for their forces:

Now it seems Canada were having similar issues in Afghanistan:

Should this be reflected in CM:SF II?

Edited May 8, 2018 by Sgt.Squarehead

[sburke]

Not sure what you are asking. You can simulate anything you want.  Think they should have issues with ammo supply? Cut their ammo.  Think they should under perform?  Make em green.  It is your sandbox.  The Canadian story seems a little hype.  "An Accounting error had them 20 minutes away from running out of 25 mm ammo in one situation in a 15 day battle." And how intense was the combat at the moment and what was the ACTUAL effect and how quickly could it be remediated? 

Don't think the Canadians should have tanks?  Don't use em.  However keep in mind you are comparing a hindsight of Afghanistan to a hypothetical conflict in Syria during which there would have been months to prep.  You can't really draw conclusions as to what the situation should have been based on a different reality.

Frankly if you want to get truly realistic, the Syrian army would be pretty much non functional with no large armor formations.  CMSF is a game designed to be fun with the toys at hand.  It is your choice as to what you think you want to do with it.  Kind of silly to ask if NATO is over equipped and not consider that the Syrian army would likely not exist at all in any organized fashion. 

.

Edited May 8, 2018 by sburke

[IanL]

11 hours ago, sburke said:

The Canadian story seems a little hype.  "An Accounting error had them 20 minutes away from running out of 25 mm ammo in one situation in a 15 day battle." And how intense was the combat at the moment and what was the ACTUAL effect and how quickly could it be remediated? 

Indeed quite the story. Ooops. I have not heard all the details (I have an interview queued up in my podcast player) but what I have heard is they slowed the tempo to conserve ammo until the issue was corrected. So, clearly it had some effect but from the accounts I heard operation Medusa was an overall success so this problem, while clearly a challenge, was not a show stopper. 

[DerKommissar]

3 hours ago, IanL said:

Indeed quite the story. Ooops. I have not heard all the details (I have an interview queued up in my podcast player) but what I have heard is they slowed the tempo to conserve ammo until the issue was corrected. So, clearly it had some effect but from the accounts I heard operation Medusa was an overall success so this problem, while clearly a challenge, was not a show stopper. 

#sajjanbattles

I recently faced these in the British campaign:

http://combatmission.wikia.com/wiki/File:T-72M1V_Turms-T.jpg

They managed to go toe-to-toe with Challenger 2s. Sometimes, they even got off the first shot (TI and FCS greatly improved) -- and rarely missed. Probably my favorite mission, so far. My western defensive MBT tactics were put to the ultimate test.

I love all the cool NATO toys that you get in SF. I would like some allies for Syria, in SF2 expansions, though. Maybe Iran and Russia would help tilt the scale a little bit?

Edited May 8, 2018 by DerKommissar

[Rinaldi]

Everybody take a shot....

[sid_burn]

I want to echo the criticism made by @sburke, to a certain extent you have to overlook certain issue for the sake of gameplay. In reality, any large Syrian contingent would be bombed into nothingness long before it reached NATO forces, but it wouldn't be fun to play Shock Force if every scenario consisted of COIN or mopping up scattered, demoralized forces; scenarios like Bier und Brezel wouldn't be realistic.

The same could be said with other CM games. For example in Black Sea, most major Russian formations would be wiped out by NATO's massive qualitative and quantitative air/firepower advantage. But, then we wouldn't get fun scenarios like First Clash and Valley of Death, where the 1st Cavalry fights off large scale Russian formations; who in reality would be burning hulks by the time 1st Cav got anywhere close to them.

Edited May 8, 2018 by sid_burn

[IanL]

1 hour ago, DerKommissar said:

#sajjanbattles

Love the mock up of the defence minister GI Joe figure.

For those that don't follow Canadian Politics here are a couple of articles:

https://globalnews.ca/news/3416736/harjit-sajjan-operation-medusa-architect/

https://globalnews.ca/news/3439350/commentary-operation-medusa-wouldnt-have-happened-without-minister-sajjan/

Pretty embarrassing but not quite the "totally made up out of whole cloth" that some of you might be used to from your leaders.

Edited May 8, 2018 by IanL
spelling - of course

[IanL]

41 minutes ago, sid_burn said:

I want to echo the criticism made by @sburke, to a certain extent you have to overlook certain issue for the sake of gameplay. In reality, any large Syrian contingent would be bombed into nothingness long before it reached NATO forces,

Geeze I'm not sure it would even last well. Look at how quickly the Syrian forces disintegrated in the face of the angry and lightly armed protesters that rose up after the Syrian Army attacked unarmed protesters. It was not long before defectors and poor morale left them unable to do much of anything.

 

41 minutes ago, sid_burn said:

The same could be said with other CM games. For example in Black Sea, most major Russian formations would be wiped out by NATO's massive qualitative and quantitative air/firepower advantage.

Careful now you'll start the whole my air defence is better than your air force argument again.

[AttorneyAtWar]

As everyone has already pointed out, all Shock Force scenarios where a large Syrian counter-offensive is launched should be removed from the game because they would have been interdicted/bombed into oblivion long before they were in position to pose any kind of threat.

These two anecdotes don't prove anything and i'm honestly shocked that someone could extrapolate from them that the NATO Forces present in the game need to be nerfed.

[General Jack Ripper]

"The rifles were being fired more often than planned..."

Who designs a rifle that is intended not to be fired? The Germans...  
LOLZ.

[General Jack Ripper]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 8:30 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Should this be reflected in CM:SF II?

No.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I reckon having your troops equipped with broomsticks at the lower equipment quality levels would add a whole new challenge to the game for Blue.  

[sburke]

19 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I reckon having your troops equipped with broomsticks at the lower equipment quality levels would add a whole new challenge to the game for Blue.  

We shall sweep the enemy before us!!!!