Combat Mission: End of Empire

[Cpl Steiner]

As someone else posted a desire for a 1980s hypothetical "Cold War Gone Hot" game title I will post what I would love to see.

"Combat Mission: End of Empire" (better title needed)

The title would cover the 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s, focusing on theatres outside of Europe (primarily Africa and the Far East but including the Falkland Islands). Belgians in the Congo, Mercenaries, African post-independence Civil Wars, Vietnam, Cubans in Angola, Brits in Aden, etc. I wouldn't mind if it focused on one particular war as long as it gave us pre-1985 equipment (FN FAL rifle for Brits for instance). This was the period of European Decolonisation, when European armies fought several COIN wars in Africa, recently independent African states fought proxy wars (one side communist-backed, one side western-backed), US fought to prevent take-over of South Vietnam (recently independent from France), etc. But most of all, it would allow me to make a "The Wild Geese" campaign (British mercenaries rescue African leader then get sold out by their employers).

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Some might find his interesting though personally  would consider this title as a lower priority myself being more interestd near future high tech conflct

Edited May 15, 2017 by LUCASWILLEN05

[Sgt.Squarehead]

'Combat Mission: Brushfire Wars' perhaps?

Superb idea and one I'd support wholeheartedly.....This is exactly the sort of engagement that I would like to model with CM.  Please don't stop at the end of the eighties though, many of these minor wars have continued into the current era in one form or another, so I could imagine plenty of potential modules for this concept (one per two decades perhaps, starting in the 60s).

Edited May 15, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Cpl Steiner]

6 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

'Combat Mission: Brushfire Wars' perhaps?

Superb idea and one I'd support wholeheartedly.....This is exactly the sort of engagement that I would like to model with CM.  Please don't stop at the end of the eighties though, many of these minor wars have continued into the current era in one form or another, so I could imagine plenty of potential modules for this concept (one per two decades perhaps, starting in the 60s).

It's a popular subject for miniatures wargamers...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bush-Wars-Africa-1960-2010-Force/dp/1849087695/ref=pd_sim_14_6?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BZ5KH35HTJK89VQQ9ESH

There's another big reason I would love to see  BFC do such a title. We have multiple WWII titles and some Present Day/Near Future titles but nothing in between. There is a huge wealth of military history between WWII and today that is currently completely untapped. It would be like a breath of fresh air and would reinvigorate the CM franchise.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Cpl Steiner
Additional thoughts

[HerrTom]

I'm still drooling over the thought of Combat Mission Fulda Gap, but I wouldn't complain about Combat Mission Suez Crisis or to compare Graviteam's Operation Hooper with Battlefront's haha.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

We do have CM:A & CM:SF which can be used to simulate quite a few of these operations, but a new bang up to date title would be great. 

[Combatintman]

I'd love something like this but it would be a huge project. However with a huge project you get lots of scope for some really interesting actions because as you rightly point out, a lot happened in that period.

Funnily enough one of my current CMSF projects is an update of the Limbang Raid ...

https://www.navyhistory.org.au/the-raid-on-limbang-1962/2/

[LongLeftFlank]

 

This can all be approximated today in CMSF, or CMBN/CW for the 1950s, via creative modding/texture swapping and cherry picking of unit sets.

For the wish list (not holding my breath), helpful adds would be (unarmoured) land rovers and mobile T54s. Also, Uncons in short sleeved T shirts and sandals or traditional 'man dress' a la CMA.

Back port from the WWII games: 57mm and 75mm recoilless rifle, PPSh machine pistol, Mauser sniper rifle, Bren LMG, rifle grenades and molotovs (pre-RPG era), Willys jeep (unarmed and 50 cal), a couple of end of war British scout cars, E8 Sherman (76 and 90mm 'super'), T34/85, 75mm pack howitzer on map, Western troops without body armour.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Sounds like most of the bits are already in place, just need someone to string 'em together. 

 

[Cpl Steiner]

We need berets. Gotta have berets

[Sgt.Squarehead]

A modernised 'Wild-Geese' wouldn't be completely beyond the realms of possibility using CM:SF.....Couldn't you make a uniform mod using CM:BN Paras or similar?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Combatintman]

While you could get away with the Brits for the 1950s by using the WWII titles and probably the same for the French, once you hit the 60s onwards Mods ain't going to cut it, although as I'm no modder I'd love to be proved wrong.  I think it would be a stretch to be going back in time to the pre-SA80 era using modded CMSF Brit types.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I forgot about the guns TBH. 

So that's it then, new game engine needed.....CM:SF II & multiple modules here we come. 

[Cpl Steiner]

Getting this battle rifle into CM is reason enough for a new game family. One of the most widely used weapons of the modern era. The Brits opted for a semi-automatic version, valuing marksmanship over "spray n' pray", and for a while the British Army was pretty much the only Western military force that didn't have a fully automatic rifle as standard issue. This rifle served in the militaries of over 90 countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL

 

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I believe CM:A already has it, it certainly has the G3 with a scope. 

Just checked.....G3, FN-FAL and also the Bren-Gun are all in CM:A (as is the Lee-Enfield). 

How much modding do you want to do? 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[LongLeftFlank]

I got a fair way into a rough and ready CMBN Dien Bien Phu mod set in 2012, but had to abandon the concept, since entrenchments don't provide sufficient cover to replicate positional warfare. Sounds like it's gotten even harder now with 4.0 infantry bailing out of holes. 

On 10/29/2012 at 3:12 PM, LongLeftFlank said:

 

[LUCASWILLEN05]

I would not buy this myself. No interested in the period. But I would buy a Combat Mission War on Terror covering similar actions (present or future with modern day forces including Western intervention forces, Mali is an example

[IanL]

16 hours ago, Cpl Steiner said:

Getting this battle rifle into CM is reason enough for a new game family. One of the most widely used weapons of the modern era. The Brits opted for a semi-automatic version, valuing marksmanship over "spray n' pray", and for a while the British Army was pretty much the only Western military force that didn't have a fully automatic rifle as standard issue. This rifle served in the militaries of over 90 countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL

Canada was right there with the Brits. Their variation of the above https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L1A1_Self-Loading_Rifle was also semi auto with the squad getting one L2A1/C2 which was full auto. And as you can see they used it for around 30 years too.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

The L1's still held in high regard, a 'proper' rifle. 

 

[Cpl Steiner]

"Force on Force" wargame rules got there first but if it's legally possible I would now favour borrowing from their supplement title and calling the new game family "Combat Mission: Bush War" - subtitle: Tactical Combat in Africa, 1960 to Present. It wasn't all infantry-only stuff either. I own a board game (can't remember the name, possible "First Battle" or "First Fight") that portrayed post-WWII tactical combat, in which there was a scenario featuring an armoured clash in Africa. BMPs were involved. Possibly Angola.

If such a game family became reality you could make it a fictional "emergency" scenario in an African state fought between the government and local insurgents with forces intervening from Belgium, Britain, Cuba, France - and if political sensitivities could be addressed - South Africa and Rhodesia. It would give the setting some sort of cohesion whilst providing scenario makers the tools to make whatever historical scenario took their fancy.

I can imagine there is probably a < 0.1% chance of such a game family being made but I can dream.

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

If a CM:Fulda Gap were to materialize we'd be a long way towards having all the units needed, modders could do the rest.

[Cpl Steiner]

Finally remembered (well, searched for) that game that featured some modern African conflicts. Here it is...

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4935/test-arms

[FoxZz]

3 hours ago, Cpl Steiner said:

"Force on Force" wargame rules got there first but if it's legally possible I would now favour borrowing from their supplement title and calling the new game family "Combat Mission: Bush War" - subtitle: Tactical Combat in Africa, 1960 to Present. It wasn't all infantry-only stuff either. I own a board game (can't remember the name, possible "First Battle" or "First Fight") that portrayed post-WWII tactical combat, in which there was a scenario featuring an armoured clash in Africa. BMPs were involved. Possibly Angola.

If such a game family became reality you could make it a fictional "emergency" scenario in an African state fought between the government and local insurgents with forces intervening from Belgium, Britain, Cuba, France - and if political sensitivities could be addressed - South Africa and Rhodesia. It would give the setting some sort of cohesion whilst providing scenario makers the tools to make whatever historical scenario took their fancy.

I can imagine there is probably a < 0.1% chance of such a game family being made but I can dream.

 

 

Rhodesian and Angolian conflicts are quiet well known in the english world, but at this time there was also plenty of hefty fights troughout all africa, I'm thinking especially to operations going on In Chad from the 60s to the 90s between Lybia, France, Chad, involving fighters jets, tanks, IFVs, ATGMS, and so on.

For those interested : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opération_Épervier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Manta

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opération_Tacaud

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kolwezi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouadi_Doum_air_raid

Some pictures of this time

It was a very interesting time period indeed.

Edited May 17, 2017 by FoxZz

[LongLeftFlank]

A friend of mine was a CNN field producer and described the Libyan T55s being unable to traverse their turrets fast enough to hit the pickups.

[FoxZz]

The Chadians were using classical rezzou tactics, but used Toyota pick-ups straped with Milans instead of camesl and horses. They are still using those tactics today which proved to be effective yet deadly against the islamists.

Edited May 18, 2017 by FoxZz