delliejonut Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) I was just maneuvering my pixeltruppen around with hunt commands, and it occurred to me it would be a neat idea to be able to set a fallback position in case they take fire. In example, I set a hunt waypoint forward and a fast/slow waypoint back to safety, and if they take fire they book it back to the safe waypoint instead of stopping altogether. Maybe this could be acheived by cancelling just the hunt command instead of the whole chain? Who knows I'm sure it's one of those things that's already been discussed but it just occurred to me. EDIT: To make sure they don't immediately run back after reaching their waypoint unmolested you could just put a pause on the hunt command. Edited February 26, 2017 by delliejonut 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I'm not sure it has. Seems like a good idea actually. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 IIRC, in some of the discussions of the new changes to the AI in scenario design, this came up as something you could do there. But I wasn't paying very close attention, so may have that wrong. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) I think RockinHarry is doing this or similar with one of his CMBN\CMFB created Scenario's for the AI... Joe Edited February 26, 2017 by JoMc67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I'm not entirely sure that this is a good idea... If for example a squad are moving forward with a hunt command and takes fire ( a single shot from a lone guy or perhaps a few guys )... Very light fire that is...I don't think it would be very realistic if the entire squad decided to sort of 'flee'...and retreat a certain distance. Hit the ground (as it works now)...yes, sure...but not retreat after only a single shot ! No ! not a good idea imo... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delliejonut Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 Well the idea is that you can decide whether or not to include a withdrawal//alternate when under fire. You are right about different levels of fire though, there's no way to distinguish between potshots and heavy mg fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Two questions that apply to all these suggestions; 1) What is the real-world analogue you want the AI to emulate here? 2) Why do you think automation is better than having the player issue fresh orders? As a general rule, I think the TacAI should only handle immediate actions and and self preservation automatically. That includes returning fire and going to ground, but excludes positive actions like repositioning. (and yes; there is an inconsistency here given that tanks readily back out of percieved danger, but infantry does not.) Edited February 26, 2017 by JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 1 hour ago, JoMc67 said: I think RockinHarry is doing this or similar with one of his CMBN\CMFB created Scenario's for the AI... Joe Think you mean the use of the new AI withdraw command for offensice movement (in fact just the smoke laying part)? Yet I like the rally point (fallback position) idea when the TacAI decides for an evade movement from untenable positions or other. This should apply to both the AI and unit player forces alike, although it couldn´t be fool proof (friendly/enemy fronts can change dynamically during a battle). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 The idea as such may not be all that bad but another reason for concer with letting the AI handle this is imo... - Suppression of the enemy before a withdrawl...When, where , who should do it ? Your overwatch element...When should they start shooting, where (the orgin of the enemy fire might not be fully identified)...The AI will have a hard time telling when the enemy shooter is significantelly suppressed... also What movement type should the withdrawing unit use ? sneak, fast, withdraw (in different situations different options might be the prefered one...?) Like JonS mentinoed...Perhaps it will be better to let the player decide and time these things (even if something like a half a turn might pass until he is able to issue any new orders) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 10 minutes ago, RepsolCBR said: (even if something like a half a turn might pass until he is able to issue any new orders) And bear in mind that 30 seconds is a stunningly quick response, given all the OODA steps that need to be completed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, JonS said: ...OODA... Wasn't she one of Charlie Chaplin's wives? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Your guys are hopefully covered by another team in overwatch. If not your boys are gonna get shot in the back as they try to run away. Better to go to ground and let your support do it's job. If you don't have anyone in overwatch you screwed up. I am speaking from experience ? Fortunately my pixeltruppen don't seem to hold it against me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 55 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said: Michael https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) . Edited February 27, 2017 by JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delliejonut Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) I'm not talking about tac ai. I'm talking about a two waypoint move command like this- http://i.imgur.com/nacqKBs.png Instead of the whole chain of commands being cancelled when fired upon, only the hunt command is cancelled, meaning they book it back to the fast waypoint. The pause is there to keep them from moving if they arrive unmolested. This could be done with a slow command as well as fast, or anything in between. I guess it would be called something besides hunt though. The main reason I thought of this is because I was trying to sneak around buildings before enemy contact. If you drop to the street and stop without cover, you're dead. At least this way my boys could run back behind the building if they get shot at. Edited March 3, 2017 by delliejonut 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I think I just issue different commands in urban settings. I do not hunt around buildings. It does little to avoid an ambush. I move quickly from cover to cover and try to be sure and have eyes on the destination I am gonna move to next . My goal is to be out of the open as quickly as possible. Pixeltruppen who pause even to run back the way they came are usually dead pixeltruppen. If I am really nervous about how exposed they will be in their next move I start looking to see who has smoke grenades. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delliejonut Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Stop sburke, you're too titillating with your tactical talk we should play a PBEM in a city so I can be on the receiving end of your strategy, if you're so inclined to multiplayer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 15 hours ago, delliejonut said: Instead of the whole chain of commands being cancelled when fired upon, only the hunt command is cancelled, meaning they book it back to the fast waypoint. The pause is there to keep them from moving if they arrive unmolested. This could be done with a slow command as well as fast, or anything in between. I guess it would be called something besides hunt though. The idea has its merits fore sure...Keep the HUNT command as it is and add this as an extra MOVE ORDER-option. Maybe 'PROBE'... If i understand you correctly it would work something like this... - At the end of the first leg of the order (pause waypoint in the picture) the player will be able to set any actions as usual with waypoints, hide, target, target arc etc.. that will be carried out if the unit reaches that waypoint. If this happens the second leg of the order (withdraw part ) will be cancelled. - The player should be able to define what kind of withdraw option 'the probing' units should use if comming under fire (sneak, fast etc). If the unit comes under fire the first leg of the order will be cancelled immidiatelly and the unit will execute the withdraw order option (without any pausing at all). maybe as an option if the player has added a pause fuction to the end of the first leg (as in pictures) the unit will hide in place for the set ammount of time before executing withdraw-part of the order (to allow for some friendly suppression). I'm actually starting to like this idea somewhat better. This will be a quite complicated order to implement though i fear. I don't know how much of an programming effort it would take to get something like this working. (will it be worth the effort ?) It would be nice to have something like this as an option to the regular HUNT command but its not on the top of my wishlist (32 AI-Groups )... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 delliejonut, Is your avatar in Los Angeles, CA by chance? If so, I've seen it a bunch of times, but never did manage to go in and get some donuts! There was/is a chain there called Winchell's, which wasn't good at all (Krispy Kreme was food of the gods by comparison), but the running gag was "If you need a cop, go to the nearest Winchell's. How true it was. At any given time there were always at leas two, and sometimes there was a cruiser in every spot in front of the store! As far as the Hunt/Reverse method, I use that with armor when expecting contact. Saved my butt in my last QB vs AI, because it let my M3 series Bradley get off an otherwise impossible while moving TOW 2B shot. Upon further thought, my memory's flawed it half worked in that I got off a TOW shot with one, whereas the other got a KE round in the kisser from a T-90AM and exploded, with every crewman a Red casualty. Call the sounds upsetting.nHaven't tried your idea with infantry, but you've definitely made me think. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewood1 Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Steel Beasts has this command and it can be tripped immediately, on time, based on casualties, type of incoming fire, and maybe a few other parameters. Its great for scouts and advancing into unknown forces. In fact, it can be automated to let the AI choose the best fall back position also. It is a very useful command especially for lighter armor and infantry scouts that you might only want to withdraw if they are seriously over-matched. IIRC, you can even have the unit withdraw and take an alternate route based on the type of resistance met. Its simple to set up and, following what I understand is common tactical planning, I do it on most units advancing with minimal intelligence. In short, It is one of the commands I miss moving from SB to CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 would be better for a move with vehicle command causing vehicle and soldiers to move together but then what mode would they use hunt,move,move fast,slow etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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