Precision Artillery - counter tactics

[Euri]

Do you know if, when a spotter has (directly or through UAV) instructed a precision strike on a targeted vehicle and in the meantime the vehicle moves in another position STILL VISIBLE by the spotter, the time to bring down the rounds resets or is it the same?

Say for example that on minute 1 (M1) a spotter orders precision strike on vehicle V which is on position P1 and the time of execution of the strike is two minutes. The next minute M2, V moves on P2 and the spotter can still see P2. The shells will come down on M3 or on M4? In other words if one is relocating constantly without breaking LOS is he safe agaist precision?

[Ithikial_AU]

Pretty sure the answer is no, unless you move out of line of site completly from the spotter as part of that move. Which is very hard if the spotter is using a drone on an area observation mission and has you locked on. You'll probably only know you've been spotted a second before you're taken out. The joys of modern warfare and perhaps part of the reason we see more people (at least over at FGM) stick with WW2 CMx2 games. It's simply more tactical and 'forgiving' allowing you to plan and react more so than modern era titles where it's generaly spot first or die.

Mmm maybe programming new terrain rules for vehicles moving inside buidlings (garages, warehouses etc) would help reduce the risk but for now.... good luck.

[Erwin]

We had a discussion about indirect artillery vs moving targets.  The opinion was that if the FO can still see the target, the arty would adjust to the target's new position automatically.

In the game at least, it's likely to be the same for a drone functioning as the FO's eyes.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Erwin

[akd]

IIRC, target will adjust until the round is in the air.

[Michael Emrys]

1 hour ago, akd said:

IIRC, target will adjust until the round is in the air.

That makes sense. A round that adjusts after it has been fired is unknown to me, however. And exception might be a round that is laser homing. Does anything like that exist?

Michael

Edited November 10, 2016 by Michael Emrys

[akd]

Yes, all the Russian precision rounds are laser-guided and should be able to adjust in flight (within limits), but can't in game.  The US rounds are GPS-guided and so hit a set of coordinates, consistent with the behavior in game.

Edited November 10, 2016 by akd

[Euri]

For sure targeting will adjust. the question is if this adjustment will take additional time. I understand the consensus is it won't 

[Michael Emrys]

4 hours ago, akd said:

Yes, all the Russian precision rounds are all laser-guided and should be able to adjust in flight (within limits)...

Of course the down side to that would be that the laser would stay on the target until the round lands. If the other side has a way of tracking the laser back to its source, it could then find itself a target too.

Michael

[JonS]

5 hours ago, akd said:

Yes, all the Russian precision rounds are all laser-guided and should be able to adjust in flight (within limits), but can't in game.  The US rounds are GPS-guided and so hit a set of coordinates, consistent with the behavior in game.

Isn't Copperhead laser guided, and maneuverable in-flight?

[akd]

5 hours ago, JonS said:

Isn't Copperhead laser guided, and maneuverable in-flight?

I am referring to the weapons in game.

[TheForwardObserver]

The point of impact of laser guided munitions can be adjusted during flight, as was mentioned, with the optimum chance of hitting the target occurring when the target is near the center of the footprint, and furthermore having above 50 percent chance of hitting as long as the target doesn't deviate outside of the footprint.  The size and shape of the footprint are affected by the target cloud height, the GT range, visibility, and the angle of fire.

This is an example footprint template, an aid to assist the observer in visualizing the engagement area for a particular set of conditions.


Laser guided munitions begin to acquire the reflected energy from the laser on the downward leg of their flight, and coordination between the FDC and the Observer are required to ensure that the Observer can lase in the safest manner.  If there is a high probability that the targeted vehicle is equipped with devices that can detect and triangulate incoming laser energy, then a procedure called Offset Laser Designation is used, whereby an object or location near the target is lased to determine the initial aim point.

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by TheForwardObserver

[MOS:96B2P]

19 hours ago, TheForwardObserver said:

<Snip>  If there is a high probability that the targeted vehicle is equipped with devices that can detect and triangulate incoming laser energy, then a procedure called Offset Laser Designation is used, whereby an object or location near the target is lased to determine the initial aim point.

 

Thanks for this very interesting post.  This last part especially.  Probably not how the game works but still very clever.  

[John Kettler]

Guys,

Here's a useful discussion on what LGMs can and can't do. Though the article is about LGBs, the principles remain the same, as do the operational limitations imposed by WX, dust, ground reflectivity, seeker angle limits and more. The mere fact the guy on the laser designator can see and lase the target doesn't necessarily mean the inbound smart shell can.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Euri,

Seems to me that when facing Excalibur, the key is frequent movement. Be where it won't be, for once on the way, so far as I know, the impact point can't be changed. Unfortunately, such Excalibur blunting (couldn't resist the sword metaphor) movement attracts a bunch of eyes and other things, potentially resulting in instead receiving , say, a laser guided JDAM (not in game yet, but easily implemented), a MMW Hellfire, laser or IR Maverick or other unpleasantness, such as KE from a 120 mm cannon.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited November 13, 2016 by John Kettler

[Euri]

3 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Euri,

Seems to me that when facing Excalibur, the key is frequent movement.

True. But taking into account that Excalibur needs 2 minutes to come down, the key question is do I have to move out of the observation area of the drone used for spotting, or just move a few metres aside? I think the former

[Aurelius]

From my experience, shells will land on the area where the vehicle was at the end of a turn.

[Euri]

Of the current turn(!) or the preceeding  turn?

[Aurelius]

Preceeding.

[Euri]

If this is correct, the logical conclusion is that if one gives a move order (even some meters away) it will avoid the precision strike in all cases whatsoever. This should be tested further because if this is the case, tunguskas are practially immune from precission fire.

[Kinophile]

I just had a BMP3 dodge two separate PGM strikes from @TheForwardObserver, simply by not staying still longer than 45s.

If he hadn't been killed off by a Javelin I'm pretty sure it would have taken a double-tap strike to catch him. 

In a sense it flushed him out,  but he got killed more by my cockiness and his blastedly low ROF. 

In RL I'm sure this tactic would wear out both machine and driver, and as noted the sy exposing to other fires, but it does seem the only way to stay alive once in contact.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by kinophile