Funny moment

[STUCKER]

Been playing Battlefront games for years.  Tonight while playing a Final Blitzkrieg scenario, one of my Panthers was moving up a hill and it comes out near the highest point. It spots a lone Sherman on a hill facing it about a mile away.   BOOM!  Sherman brews up.  So I move the camera in close to the Sherman to relive the moment the shell pierces the turret front and when it does, it explodes, starts burning and the a hatch opens up and out jumps a lone U.S. crewman who curses "Son of a Bit#%!"  and he crawls away.  I don't know if this is from a sound Mod I am using or vanilla but I bet I laughed for a half hour! 

[Vergeltungswaffe]

So many of those moments to treasure.  War is hell, but thankfully, gaming is not.

[Michael Emrys]

5 hours ago, Vergeltungswaffe said:

So many of those moments to treasure.

I recall one from CMBO. There was a duel between a German armored car and an American one and the German succeeded. When I moved the camera over next to the German AC as the final shot was being fired, after the American exploded, I heard coming from the German, "Ja!"

Michael

[Warts 'n' all]

Depending on which camera angle I am using I often hear the "Ja!" before I see the "Penetration" on screen.

[antaress73]

...

Edited June 19, 2016 by antaress73
Double post

[antaress73]

On 18/06/2016 at 2:01 AM, Warts 'n' all said:

Depending on which camera angle I am using I often hear the "Ja!" before I see the "Penetration" on screen.

That sounded so wrong lol

[Warts 'n' all]

Careful, I'm a puritan!

[JoMac]

On 6/17/2016 at 11:53 PM, STUCKER said:

Been playing Battlefront games for years.  Tonight while playing a Final Blitzkrieg scenario, one of my Panthers was moving up a hill and it comes out near the highest point. It spots a lone Sherman on a hill facing it about a mile away.   BOOM!  Sherman brews up.  So I move the camera in close to the Sherman to relive the moment the shell pierces the turret front and when it does, it explodes, starts burning and the a hatch opens up and out jumps a lone U.S. crewman who curses "Son of a Bit#%!"  and he crawls away.  I don't know if this is from a sound Mod I am using or vanilla but I bet I laughed for a half hour! 

Ok, so you mean to say that your Leopard 2 moved up a Hill, and quickly spotted and destroyed a T-80 in one shot...I see nothing wrong with that.

Now, if you were playing any of the CMx2 WWII Titles it should take several seconds (up to one turn) to spot and a few shots before hitting and destroying that tank a mile away. 

Oops, Never mind, this is indeed one of those WWII Titles, and so I have no explanation for your quick spotting and the One-Shot Wonder (shh, I think it's a carry over from shock-force or somefink). 

Edited June 20, 2016 by JoMc67

[Sublime]

Of course it could also just be a lucky first shot with the tank appearing where the German tank was looking?

I do agree the spotting of the tanks is a little fast and robotic for something as blind as a ww2 tank especially buttoned. But is it that crazy its a little fast and robotic? Its a computer using artificial intelligence to control the tank.. the definition of fast and robotic.

[womble]

Or "a mile away" could have been hyperbole.

[Sublime]

Quite

[antaress73]

Sometimes i think CMFB tanks spot better than Russian or Ukrainian tanks in CMBS.

[STUCKER]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 10:20 AM, JoMc67 said:

Ok, so you mean to say that your Leopard 2 moved up a Hill, and quickly spotted and destroyed a T-80 in one shot...I see nothing wrong with that.

Now, if you were playing any of the CMx2 WWII Titles it should take several seconds (up to one turn) to spot and a few shots before hitting and destroying that tank a mile away. 

Oops, Never mind, this is indeed one of those WWII Titles, and so I have no explanation for your quick spotting and the One-Shot Wonder (shh, I think it's a carry over from shock-force or somefink). 

Well it might not have been a mile.  I was only guessing.  I was focusing on the audio comment by the U.S. tanker so I did not really pay much attention to range but it was not what I would consider "close".  It was probably less, maybe 1000 yards. 
The Panther was opened.  It did not look like the Sherman saw the Panther at all.  The Panther crew was Elite. 

There are documented reports first shot hits and even kills  from good range.  Read the report about Wittmann at "Point 65.5"  in 1941.  First shot kills or even hits were rare for sure.  Although Wittmann and Knispel's crews (and there were others) had been credited with them.

Supposedly an Elephant killed a T-34 at 4.5 KM.  Not sure if it was the first shot but at that range, any hit is amazing.

[JoMac]

1 hour ago, STUCKER said:

Well it might not have been a mile.  I was only guessing.  I was focusing on the audio comment by the U.S. tanker so I did not really pay much attention to range but it was not what I would consider "close".  It was probably less, maybe 1000 yards. 
The Panther was opened.  It did not look like the Sherman saw the Panther at all.  The Panther crew was Elite. 

There are documented reports first shot hits and even kills  from good range.  Read the report about Wittmann at "Point 65.5"  in 1941.  First shot kills or even hits were rare for sure.  Although Wittmann and Knispel's crews (and there were others) had been credited with them.

Supposedly an Elephant killed a T-34 at 4.5 KM.  Not sure if it was the first shot but at that range, any hit is amazing.

This may be true, and it would have taken careful aiming that would include several seconds from a Crack Crew in order to get a first shot hit in...Your Robotic Panther, moved, halted, spotted and KOed a Sherman all in one minute turn (or less I'm sure since this all took place in under a minute)...If this was an Ambush,  then I could understand the One-Hit-Wonder (assuming spotting, then dialing in the range, etc...all in one minute)

Your instance is not the only time, but it seems to happen at least 50% of the time at those ranges. 

But, I digress... 

Edited June 29, 2016 by JoMc67

[gnarly]

On 17/06/2016 at 1:53 PM, STUCKER said:

 I don't know if this is from a sound Mod I am using or vanilla but I bet I laughed for a half hour! 

I'd be guessing it's from the sound mod. I am using one as well, and the infantrymen's language is definitely much more 'colourful' than stock...

[STUCKER]

14 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

This may be true, and it would have taken careful aiming that would include several seconds from a Crack Crew in order to get a first shot hit in...Your Robotic Panther, moved, halted, spotted and KOed a Sherman all in one minute turn (or less I'm sure since this all took place in under a minute)...If this was an Ambush,  then I could understand the One-Hit-Wonder (assuming spotting, then dialing in the range, etc...all in one minute)

Your instance is not the only time, but it seems to happen at least 50% of the time at those ranges. 

But, I digress... 

I wish I would have recorded it with my phone (just to relive the humor part).   The Panther may have already spotted the Sherman during the previous turn ( I don't play in real time.)  It was already very close to the  edge of the wooded area on the hill at the start of the turn so the German crew may have been already planning the shot.   Lucky hit for sure. 

  So in your opinion are you claiming that the CM games first shot hit percentages are too high?   To me, it would be difficult to model historical accuracy closely because of the limited data regarding that issue.  Other than Wittmann and Knispel's  stuff, I don't know of any detailed data regarding first shot/hits.  Somewhere there probably exists information but I am not aware of it.  Who would have recorded this info and with details?  (Range, weather, etc).  The crews would have to document it later if there was time and then much was probably hyperbole.

The ballistic model seems good to me based on what I have read about these weapon platforms and performance etc.  Not perfect but I think close in most cases.  I don't agree with the seemingly high percentage of small arms fire hits against the optics, nor the knock outs of the main gun on tanks from other tank fire.  I also don't agree with the damage to tank treads by running over a wooden fence etc.

 

[Michael Emrys]

1 hour ago, STUCKER said:

I don't agree with the seemingly high percentage of small arms fire hits against the optics, nor the knock outs of the main gun on tanks from other tank fire.  I also don't agree with the damage to tank treads by running over a wooden fence etc.

Yeah, those have been nagging at me lately too.

1 hour ago, STUCKER said:

So in your opinion are you claiming that the CM games first shot hit percentages are too high?   To me, it would be difficult to model historical accuracy closely because of the limited data regarding that issue.  Other than Wittmann and Knispel's  stuff, I don't know of any detailed data regarding first shot/hits.  Somewhere there probably exists information but I am not aware of it.  Who would have recorded this info and with details?  (Range, weather, etc).  The crews would have to document it later if there was time and then much was probably hyperbole.

You might try poking around in accounts of the Lorraine campaign in the fall of '44. ISTR a description of a major tank battle there where a small unit (platoon?) of M18 TDs virtually gutted a Panzer brigade. I think there were several first shot kills mentioned, but it's been several years and my memory is a bit vague on the subject. But still, it might be worth a look.

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

5 hours ago, STUCKER said:

I don't agree with the seemingly high percentage of small arms fire hits against the optics,

You are seeing small arms fire damaging optics easily and on a regular basis?  I admit to not tracking this closely but I do not re call ever seeing small arms fire hurting a tank - other than taking out crew who are peaking out of hatches.

 

5 hours ago, STUCKER said:

nor the knock outs of the main gun on tanks from other tank fire. 

So, if an AP round hits an enemy tank's gun you think it should never hurt it?  I have to admit I do not understand this often claimed problem.  What do you want the game to do when an AP round hits a tank gun?

 

5 hours ago, STUCKER said:

I also don't agree with the damage to tank treads by running over a wooden fence etc.

We have had experienced tankers say they avoid breaking through walls and fences when they do not need to because of the risk to their tracks.  If there was no risk then we players would just crash around without regard.  Given that apparently actual tank commanders prefer to not do that it seems appropriate for there to be a downside risk for us in the game.

[Michael Emrys]

4 hours ago, IanL said:

You are seeing small arms fire damaging optics easily and on a regular basis?  I admit to not tracking this closely but I do not re call ever seeing small arms fire hurting a tank - other than taking out crew who are peaking out of hatches.

I've been noticing this a bit more lately. I'm not yet prepared to say that there is anything wrong with the game; it could just be a statistical fluke.

4 hours ago, IanL said:

So, if an AP round hits an enemy tank's gun you think it should never hurt it?  I have to admit I do not understand this often claimed problem.  What do you want the game to do when an AP round hits a tank gun?

It may not be that so much as rounds are hitting the gun more often than expected...at least that has been my interpretation of what has been posted on the subject. I tend not to play against enemy tanks, but I am fairly liberal in allowing them to have ATGs and it seems to me also that a disproportionate amount of hits are on the gun when there is so much more area that could be hit.

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

Ah got it.

I'll try and look out for small arms damage.

I suppose someone could do some testing about the rate of gun hits. It will not be me though since I just don't see it happening with a frequency that concerns me. I will say that I do see gun damage more frequently with tanks that survive longer. For example if a panther has been pounded 20 plus times that is a lot more chances to end up with a damaged gun than a Sherman that goes down after two or three hits. Plus that panther is much more likely to be still driving around than the Sherman will.