'Fallen Eagle" movie: Test Trailers

[Thomm]

Regarding the abuse: I faintly recall that it was not the actual frontline soldiers who committed most of the assaults, but rear echelon troops following up, drinking and "celebrating".

Best regards,

Thomm

[Sublime]

Yes the actual first echelon troops generally seem to have been concerned with continuing fighting and taking wristwatches. It was when things settled down and troops began having a little spare time in settled areas problems really erupted and also with recently freed PoWs and slave laborers and concentration camp victims.  This doesnt mean first echelon troops didnt do it..or that they always did. It doesnt mean second or 5 th echelon troops routinely did it and it certainly got clamped down upon pretty quickly by the Red Army who seems to have decided around the time.of the fall of Berlin that the policy of Ehrenbergs propaganda basically being the only direction given by the state besides impromptu speeches on the German border or signs about you.re now entering the den of the fascist viper. Again the Wehrmacht had no compunctions raping plenty of women all over Europe, executing countless numbers, and even 'casual' brutality like condemning whole villages to death in a winter by occupying and recquisitioning their village houses.  It easy to condemn from the comfort of your home; and when it comes to rape and cold blooded murder of any civvies, or torturing or having fun in the killing of other live things I believe its wrong and sick, but Russia lost so many and so much I dont really feel right in utterly condemning what they did to Germany. The rape and murder? Too much. Beatings, people being robbed or losing houses. That sucks. You started it.

Unfortunately one could indeed argue though otoh that WW2 would never  have began precisely when and how it did and therefore not have happened the way it did without Russian.complicity.

Though by far the most proven of the Allied nations in respect to issuing orders or encouragement to actually rape and pillage and by numbers for Allied Armies the Red Army takes the cake. But that doesnt mean for Western Armies the Free French had a pretty bad atrocity record, especially amongst some colonial units. There was some pretty bad incidents involving American troops both in France and Italy. Theres less documented proof Ive read from Germany but I think thats definitely more a case of what was considered illegal in a liberated country may not be quite as illegal in Germany - especially after seeing concentration camps.

[Aragorn2002]

2 hours ago, Sublime said:

Again the Wehrmacht had no compunctions raping plenty of women all over Europe

 

I don't want to defend any crimes, German or Allied, but that simply isn't true. If you were a member of the Wehrmacht and you raped a  woman, you were court-martialed. It was a matter of discipline, as much as it was common decency and 'racial awareness', but still. Perhaps I'm wrong as far as it concerns Eastern Europe, but it certainly didn't happen 'all over Europe'. Whether it did happen in Eastern Europe is also questionable to my opinion, since the Russian horror propaganda makes it almost impossible to determine what is true and what is a lie. 

 

 

[Wicky]

5 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I don't want to defend any crimes, German or Allied, but that simply isn't true. If you were a member of the Wehrmacht and you raped a  woman, you were court-martialed. It was a matter of discipline, as much as it was common decency and 'racial awareness', but still. Perhaps I'm wrong as far as it concerns Eastern Europe, but it certainly didn't happen 'all over Europe'. Whether it did happen in Eastern Europe is also questionable to my opinion, since the Russian horror propaganda makes it almost impossible to determine what is true and what is a lie. 

What of the Jewish women who were raped througout occupied Europe?  Or women forced into German military brothels or the ones in the contentration camps?

[Aragorn2002]

1 hour ago, Wicky said:

What of the Jewish women who were raped througout occupied Europe?  Or women forced into German military brothels or the ones in the contentration camps?

Yes, also utterly disgusting of course. I'm not denying or excusing anything (and certainly not the suffering of the Jewish people) , just wanted to state that it wasn't as systematic as what the Red army did. But it was bad enough, as was that whole bloody, filthy war. I just think it is too easy to justify all horrors that people throw towards each other, by saying 'they've started it', of 'they've deserved it'. Evil is evil.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Aragorn2002

[Sublime]

So you dont think Germans raped at Oradour Sur Glane? (Sp?)

Or at many of the Belgian villages recaptured in the Bulge where they massacred civilians?

And ok lets say maybe it was only East Europe. Poland and Russia to the gates of Moscow is about more than half of europe anyways. And lets be honest here as well. Sometimes the Germans punished soldiers. Often not. Sometimes the Red Army punished soldiers. Often not.

And ok lets say for whatever reason the Germans werent especially rapey in france and italy though they perpetrated civilian massacres there that werent punished until foreigners stepped in and literally conquered German and then put them on trial.  Whose to say rape is any better or worse than murder? Its a silly question both are terrible things.

Any idea that the Wehrmacht was innocent and didnt know what was going on was BS. And the idea they fought an honorable war as a whole is BS. Yes there were honorable German troops and officers. They however stained their honor by working for a machine of conquest and murder and no German can say they didnt know what was going on. The biggest German frnt had commissar orders etc at the least being read to the men.

The secretly bugged mansion the Brits kept captured German generals in during the war revealed that ALL of them knew about the holocaust and a lot of other really really nasty business.

 

 

Russian horror propaganda aside it definitely happened all over Eastern europe

 I have a history at home of the Dirlewanger Brigade. Nice folks. You should see what they reported in anti partisan ops let alone what you get if you read between the lines.

Second Russian horror propaganda aside theres still..  accounts from the German side. Theres still irrefuteable proof. Babi Yar.. wyen the Germans used Einsatzgruppen  aalot of men couldnt perform.unless utterly sh#tfaced drunk. You dont think womwn were being raped at these drunken orgies of murder?

How about German accounys of Wehrmacht soldiers begging to be let in on "actions" to murder Jews. I mean obviously such honorable men would never rape a woman. Or the German accounts of troops taking potshots at Red Army pows. Speaking of RA pows you really think that when the Germans captured Soviet female soldiers rape wasnt common? Id contend it was simply because wvem after stern orders and threata were given about troops " wasting ammo" taking pot shots at columns on RA prisoners for fun didnt stop the practice.

So if German officers in many places couldnt stop expenditure of ammo and their men firing at pows for kicks what makes you think there was this iron discipline throughout the Wehrmacht?

If you told me anyone in any army was eager to rush off to shoot women and children but wouldnt commit rape Id assume you were either naive an idiot or both. I know youre not an idiot so i think you.re letting your intense distaste for RA activities during WW2 ( one I share ) cloud your perception of their opponents. One of the reasons i always liked the Ost Front was you dont get the " great crusade " stuff you get with the Western Allies. Both sides rightly should be considered villains and therefore people tend to be fairer and less biased. Nevermind teenaged neo nazis that used to frequent the forums or Russians who cannot accept the truth of their history.

Speaking of a disconect between true history and what happened IMO us realizing Russia was our nxt opponent and circumstance led to Japans nose being rubbed in their figurative dog feces less than the Germans and they were land invaded and occupied.i think this was mistake and reading copies of Japanese histories often sicken me. They oft read like " we peacefully minded our business

 Cough pearl harbor cough then the evil Americans tested nukes on us! 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Sublime

[Aragorn2002]

17 minutes ago, Sublime said:

So you dont think Germans raped at Oradour Sur Glane? (Sp?)

Or at many of the Belgian villages recaptured in the Bulge where they massacred civilians?

And ok lets say maybe it was only East Europe. Poland and Russia to the gates of Moscow is about more than half of europe anyways. And lets be honest here as well. Sometimes the Germans punished soldiers. Often not. Sometimes the Red Army punished soldiers. Often not.

And ok lets say for whatever reason the Germans werent especially rapey in france and italy though they perpetrated civilian massacres there that werent punished until foreigners stepped in and literally conquered German and then put them on trial.  Whose to say rape is any better or worse than murder? Its a silly question both are terrible things.

Any idea that the Wehrmacht was innocent and didnt know what was going on was BS. And the idea they fought an honorable war as a whole is BS. Yes there were honorable German troops and officers. They however stained their honor by working for a machine of conquest and murder and no German can say they didnt know what was going on. The biggest German frnt had commissar orders etc at the least being read to the men.

The secretly bugged mansion the Brits kept captured German generals in during the war revealed that ALL of them knew about the holocaust and a lot of other really really nasty business.

I've read many, many books and articles and I've came to the conclusion that there are so many lies, that there is so much confusion and so much propaganda from all sides, that it is almost impossible to know what the truth is. Oradour Sur Glane? Not such a straightforward story as most people seem to think. Many massacred Belgian villages in the Bulge? Not that I know off. Stavelot and perhaps some other places. Do you really think the shooting of POW's started at Malmedy? Civillian massacres in France and Italy? Not that different from what happened in Vietnam or Kenia for example, only on a bigger scale, because the conflict was bigger. Secretly bugged mansions with captured German generals? Wouldn't be the first propaganda stunt by British intelligence. Or perhaps those generals really were stupid enough to think nobody would be bugging them? Perhaps. We can go on like that forever.

In the end it all comes down to what you want to believe and what you feel comfortable with. The treatment of a historian like David Irving shows that very few people are interested in the truth, or at least are willing to talk about the truth. I don't know what to believe anymore, but one thing is certain. We are still living in a time of propaganda, not in a time of objective and critical research and debat. I know I'm walking on very tin ice here, but that is my opinion.

[Sublime]

I d agree that youre right. At this point and with the level of hatred, propaganda dogma and not least the 45 yr cold war means the full truth will never be known. But we DO have thousands of interviews. We have thousands of corpses documents maps etc.

Yes the mansion really happened. Google it. And i mean every room. For years. From tunisia to end of the war and every room was bugged. The bbc iirc did a docudrama about it that was good can be found on youtube. Yes the generals were that stupid because many directly implicated themselves in war crimes and paid for it.  To a man they all somehow acknowledged war crimes of some sort either under their orders or witnessing others. The reactions ranged the gamut from "we.re reaping what we sowed and we.re doing the wrong thing,""i love hitler how do we get away with this","i killed these people it haints me"etc basically every reaction you can think of.

Nevermind Kenya Malaya Angola Korea all the rest. Lets just say Vietnam. The US troops in certain areas certainly did rape and massacre. See My Lai and see the infamous Tropic Thunder (25th ID iirc) CO known as the Butcher of the Delta.  Read Nick Turses Kill Anything that Moves there was essentially systatic war crimes there too. Like turning pows over to the ARVNS. we knew theyd be killed.  But of course these have been documented ad nauseum and I dont think you can find a single example anywhere of the Wehrmacht genuinely innoculating whole villages, genuinely protecting a nations sovereignty even though it was under a puppet regime, and pouring billions in actual AID. Of course its also well documented hiw much was stolen etc. But the intentions were there. And theres nothing as systemic and widespread as the Wehrmacht.

 

For a listing of Wehrmacht massacres a simple google search will result a few notable ones in Italy. And see Charles MacDonalds A Time for Trumpets for incidents not just in Stavelot but randomly and all over that the German troops executed and looted civilians. Raped civilians. Burned houses down. A lot of bitterness especially twds reccaptured areas. Do i think US troops were executed in Malmedy.? No I think a sizable number of troops from an arty unit got massacred, along with the proprietess of an Inn at the Baugnez Crossroads. Oh and her family there at the time too. And the farmer who betrayed hiding groups of wounded or shocked and terrified GIs. This has utterly been covered examined and is true. Anyone trying to say it didnt happen is wrong. Period.  Of course the US troops started killing every SS trooper they could and also all of the infamous German infiltrators in US uniform.  I dont blame them at all. The Germans executed Western PoWs. In March or early 45 Hitler ordered all PoWs be executed and only because his order was deliberately ignoredd were the rest spared but like a huge number of concentration camp.victims and pows at the end of the war regular German armed forces have documented cases of torturing Allied airmen, and leading them on forced death marches where theyd be killed if they collapased.

Also dont forget that Goebbels famously declared again iirc in the fall of 44 that the Germans could no longer guarantee the safety of downed 'air piraten' which was basicqlly code for kill em if you want to civilians. Lots of aircrew were murdered lynched etc. Lots were saved by Germans. Like everything nothings black and white.

You also have the German end of war policy of deliberately starving Holland which is def. A western country. Only fear of war crimes reprisals ( and even then they had to be explicitly threatened ) were Allied Air Forces allowed to air drop food to the already starving civilian populace.

Look theres nothing you can say that will make me say anything ither that the Wehrmacht was the tool of one of the most supremely evil organizations in history. And so was the Red Army.

The Wehrmacht however as things transpired at least was the more dangerous of the two because of its almost suicidal nature to engage the whole world in a futile war to the end.

Just as you cannot convince me that by and large the German military forces in ww1 and ww2 were very formidable, brave in battle, and skilled at what they did. Look at the size of Germany and Allies notwithstanding its utterly amazing that they caused as much trouble as they did not once but twice in 31 years.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Sublime

[Aragorn2002]

Well said, Sublime. And I'm not trying to make you change your mind, since your opinion is as valid as I think mine is. I could argue against some of your arguments, but as I said, I don't know what the truth is and besides, I think we agree on the most important things. Scary thing is that most crimes are commited by people out of love for their country, family or ideals, which makes them hate other people's country, family or ideals. Personally I have the feeling I've bitten off more than I can chew with this discussion, so I will leave it at this. Retreating, not surrendering....

[Wicky]

"Secretly bugged mansions with captured German generals? Wouldn't be the first propaganda stunt by British intelligence."

The M Room: Secret Listeners who Bugged the Nazis in WW2

The Nazi prisoners bugged by Germans

Soldaten: On Fighting, Killing and Dying: The Secret Second World War Tapes of German POWS

Tapping Hitler’s Generals

In one section a passage attributed to Reimbold reads: 'In the first officers' prison camp where I was being kept here, there was a really stupid guy from Frankfurt , a young lieutenant, a young upstart.  
'And he said: 'Oh, we caught this female spy who had been running around in the neighborhood.
'First we hit her in the t**s with a stick and then we beat her rear end with a bare bayonet. 
Then we f***** her, and then we threw her outside and shot at her. When she was lying there on her back, we threw grenades at her.
'Every time one of them landed near her body, she screamed.' 
'And just think, there were eight German officers sitting at that table with me, and they all broke out laughing.'

As for why not many Wehrmacht soldiers were prosecuted for rape: Hitler gave an order May 13 1941 which forbade persecution of German soldiers for "actions committed by members of the Armed Forces against enemy civilians".

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Wicky

[Aragorn2002]

But why wait until 2007 with publishing these recordings (declassified in 1999)? Why weren't they used at the Nuremburg trial or other trials? And were the recordings published or the transcripts? Transcripts can be tempered with. Mind you, I don't say that has been the case, but propaganda stunts or disinformation can also be well documented. To be clear, I fully accept that German officiers knew much more than they later were willing to admit. It is impossible to keep such attrocities secret. Even David Irving doesn't deny the mass killings in the East.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-469883/The-Genocide-Generals-secret-recordings-explode-myth-knew-Holocaust.html

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Aragorn2002

[Sublime]

Really at this point what would be the point of faking the recordings at all.

It serves noone to just make it up because everyone really got what they wanted at nuremberg except the nazis and there were a lot more war crimes trials than nuremberg. Nuremberg was simply the most famous.

Iirc the tapes were used for some trials but perhaps not introduced as public evidence. Maybe the generals were blackmailed with it. Im sure we.ll steadily find new things out at least until the 2040s when i  think the very last declassifications will take hold. Same with the US and add whatever number of years for the dirtier the recorded secrets and accept some things will never be declassified and some never happened on the record.

[Anthony P.]

It's not like it's the first time in history that intelligence services have decided that it'd be more in their interest to keep their SOPs secret, rather than put all the information they've gathered to full immediate use and thus have to start from scratch. It's not like e.g. the Enigma and Bletchley Park were the subject of press conferences starting May 8th '45.

[Sublime]

Aragorn from your own link a General Kittel said " on the whole woman question is a very shady chapter.... such mean and stupid things were done." This is after him describing watching women being executed by Latvians enmasse and SS and three year old children being snatched up by the hair and shot.

Gen von Choltitz the good German supposedly because he didnt burn Paris was directly implicated in mass atrocities against Jews in the Crimea in 1941 and 42.

[Kevin2k]

7 hours ago, Sublime said:

It serves noone to just make it up because everyone really got what they wanted at nuremberg except the nazis and there were a lot more war crimes trials than nuremberg. Nuremberg was simply the most famous.

Swiss banks were sued in relation to WW2 as late as the year 2000. They settled it, with $1.25 Billion.

[Sublime]

Youre referring to how there are still trials and criminal proceedings against 3rd Reich lackeys and sympathsizers to this day?

[Aragorn2002]

3 hours ago, Sublime said:

Aragorn from your own link a General Kittel said " on the whole woman question is a very shady chapter.... such mean and stupid things were done." This is after him describing watching women being executed by Latvians enmasse and SS and three year old children being snatched up by the hair and shot.

Gen von Choltitz the good German supposedly because he didnt burn Paris was directly implicated in mass atrocities against Jews in the Crimea in 1941 and 42.

There's no doubt in my mind mean and stupid things were done. By everone. I just don't believe any link and any document that is published. In ww 1 the British propaganda machine fabricated and published an article which stated that the Germans had opened a factory, using the corpses of fallen soldiers to make soap and oil (and lamp shades and such out of human skin). It was even published in The Times on April 17, 1917 and 'well documented'. It was complete rubbish of course, but it did what it was supposed to do: create blind hatred against everything German. After the war it was accepted that the story was sheer propaganda, as were most stories of 'German 'attrocities' in Belgium and France. In ww 2 same thing happened all over again. After that war the Allies didn't hesitate to use torture and other means to make their German prisoners 'confess' everything they wanted to hear. Like I said before, in the end it comes down to what you want to believe, to what you feel comfortable with. In a world blinded by it's own lies and fabrications I chose to use my own brains, instead of those who want to control my opinion. I'm not saying you're not right about Choltitz, it is very well possible. But some transcripts from British intelligence are questionable evidence to my mind, especially since the man was never trialed.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Aragorn2002

[Wicky]

3 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

There's no doubt in my mind mean and stupid things were done. By everone. I just don't believe any link and any document that is published. In ww 1 the British propaganda machine fabricated and published an article which stated that the Germans had opened a factory, using the corpses of fallen soldiers to make soap and oil (and lamp shades and such out of human skin). It was even published in The Times on April 17, 1917 and 'well documented'. It was complete rubbish of course, but it did what it was supposed to do: create blind hatred against everything German. After the war it was accepted that the story was sheer propaganda, as were most stories of 'German 'attrocities' in Belgium and France. In ww 2 same thing happened all over again. After that war the Allies didn't hesitate to use torture and other means to make their German prisoners 'confess' everything they wanted to hear. Like I said before, in the end it comes down to what you want to believe, to what you feel comfortable with. In a world blinded by it's own lies and fabrications I chose to use my own brains, instead of those who want to control my opinion. I'm not saying you're not right about Choltitz, it is very well possible. But some transcripts from British intelligence are questionable evidence to my mind, especially since the man was never trialed.

BOOK REVIEW – TAPPING HITLER’S GENERALS: TRANSCRIPTS OF SECRET CONVERSATIONS, 1942-45

"This is a good book and an important one aimed at a mature academic, rather than populist, audience. For those interested in the German officer corps, the war in the East and the Third Reich it is required reading."  Well this book seems to pass muster with the reviewers.

You seem to believe some of transcripts* were made up/made under duress for 'propaganda stunts' rather than for gaining intelligence insights.  Surely most of the 59 German Generals were released at somepoint after the war so is there any indication from any memoirs that they were tortured in captivity at Trent Park?

Funny enough reviews of the Helen Fry's The M Room book on an anti-Semite website (I won't link to it as it contains a graphic image of Chilean torture) dismisses it for similar reasons >> "...Jew lackeys... Vindictive Jews involved in bugging and torturing of German POW in England during WW2"

* I seems the some of the information gleaned was used in Prosecution of war crimes but indirectly:

"While much evidence was gathered on Nazi atrocities, none of these secret recordings were used by prosecutors – meaning some war criminals never stood trial for their crimes against humanity.
“If the transcripts were used, it would have revealed that it was common practice to bug the prisoners and that would have jeopardised the operation – which continued long after the war ended,”explained Fry. “But they did feed the information to the prosecutors, in a bid to get the Germans to confess to their crimes without knowing they had been secretly recorded.”"

[Aragorn2002]

10 minutes ago, Wicky said:

You seem to believe some of transcripts* were made up/made under duress for 'propaganda stunts' rather than for gaining intelligence insights.  Surely most of the 59 German Generals were released at somepoint after the war so is there any indication from any memoirs that they were tortured in captivity at Trent Park?

 I seems the some of the information gleaned was used in Prosecution of war crimes but indirectly:

"While much evidence was gathered on Nazi atrocities, none of these secret recordings were used by prosecutors – meaning some war criminals never stood trial for their crimes against humanity.
“If the transcripts were used, it would have revealed that it was common practice to bug the prisoners and that would have jeopardised the operation – which continued long after the war ended,”explained Fry. “But they did feed the information to the prosecutors, in a bid to get the Germans to confess to their crimes without knowing they had been secretly recorded.”"

No, I didn't imply that those generals were  tortured, I meant confessions of German prisoners after the war. Most famous example being the Malmedy process, but it happened on a larger scale.

Would anyone really have been surprised to know that prisoners were bugged? Especially after the war, with all it's technical development? But it is possible, I guess, that was the reason for releasing the transcripts as late as 1999. As far as it concerns memoirs of anyone who was part of the Nazi-infrastructure, I think you underestimate the intensity of censorship. Hence my remark about Traudl Junge and what she did or did not put in her memoirs. Even today the censorship in Germany is stricter than in most other European countries.

[Wicky]

"After that war the Allies didn't hesitate to use torture and other means to make their German prisoners 'confess' everything they wanted to hear."

"No, I didn't imply that those generals were  tortured,"

?

[Sublime]

Of course the Brit propaganda in Ww1 was fake. In fact that led to most Westerners dismissing stories of the german atrocities in ww2. We didnt need confessions from the Nazis aragorn. We had millions of witnessess. We had all the death camps concentration camps and the slave labor factories.

We had Ilse Kochs human skin and lampshade collection which Ive seen footage of examples of.

We have millions of Allied soldiers trotted through the camps so in the words of their commanders people could never do what youre essentially doing - denying German atrocities on an industrial scale.

So duress aside how do you explain German orders that were intercepted or captured? 

Second the massacre happened at Baugnez not Malmedy. Third yes maybe some of the lower level Germans tried were there or werent there. Almost all were unsavory characters. Does it matter? Not at all - theres proof the Germans were widely ordered to not take prisoners whatsoever and the only reason by amd large that order seems to have been ignored was widespread belief the war was lost and fear of punishment.

You want the truth about how the Germans acted look at how they acted when they thought they were winning.

Besides terror bombing and introducing it, you see draconian 50 dead civilians for 1 dead German soldier, massacres of French and British troops in France 1940, and of course Poland and Russia which I cant even list a months worth of war crimes ON ANY GIVEN MONTH because I dont want to sit here for 2 weeks.

[Kevin2k]

9 hours ago, Sublime said:

Youre referring to how there are still trials and criminal proceedings against 3rd Reich lackeys and sympathsizers to this day?

They settled, which implies the swiss banks were not technically found guilty, and they can't be sued again on this matter. But as $1.25 billion is involved: it seemingly still matters which transcripts are (de)classified and true/false.

If the transcripts mentioned were released in 1999 it may even have a relation to this trial. It is just one of the many stories. As for me: There are too many stories to judge. I will leave them on the pile marked 'unverified / still politically loaded'.

[Aragorn2002]

21 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Second the massacre happened at Baugnez not Malmedy.

Yep, but the trial was called the Malmedy massacre trial. No need to be cocky, Sublime, I know my facts.

I don't feel the need nor the justification to defend German attrocities. We both know how this discussion will end if I do. Time to call it a day.

[Sublime]

Agreed.

[Sublime]

26 minutes ago, Kevin2k said:

They settled, which implies the swiss banks were not technically found guilty, and they can't be sued again on this matter. But as $1.25 billion is involved: it seemingly still matters which transcripts are (de)classified and true/false.

If the transcripts mentioned were released in 1999 it may even have a relation to this trial. It is just one of the many stories. As for me: There are too many stories to judge. I will leave them on the pile marked 'unverified / still politically loaded'.

However even at the time the recordings werent directly used. We may as well start arguing about whether ULTRA is just more Western propaganda that naturally evolved into HATO supertanks because... capitalist propaganda.

Personally I think the Swiss settled because they were guilty as sin. Maybe you could say that they didnt know about any of the Holocaust ( doubtful ) but they knew that the never ending trains of gold etc were coming from Germany essentially looting Europe. Oh look every year the Blitzkriegs successful the Germans deposit amazing amounts of gold!  That implies complicity in a sense with the German conquest of Europe.

The Swiss undoubtedly knew about public German measures such as seizing Jewish and other ' undesirable ' elements property so that means they certainly were complicit in trying to profit off of genocide or at the very least some very ugly business.

And I wonder if the Swiss wondered or cared why the Germans still kept turning in all this gold and money when they were definitely losing everywhere. Probably not. They were making money. They were "neutral". Unfortunately I rather think its sad because almost certainly lots of Nazis collected some of it and some of it I have no doubt funded Skorzeny and Odessa post war. And yeah im sure someones gonna come around and tell me Odessa is a zionist conspiracy or some nonsense.

Seriously Swiss bank trials aside there really was no reason not to finally tell that story.  I mean jesus you guys cmon. Even the SOVIETS admitted they did Katyn in 1989! 

You see Germans apologizing at famous WW2 holocaust sites Ive never once heard of Germans going to baby spearing factories or human soap factories from WW1 to apology in deference to l33t Allied propaganda. Why? Because everyone knows its BS. Why do they do so for WW2? Cuz everyone knows that isnt BS.

 

 

as far as the Malmedy process.. If Id been a high Allied commander I would have tried every goddamned SS soldier in general but especially the Bulge ones as an American. Though really the whole edifice was rotten to the damned core. Also as an American I dont think Lt Calley from My Lai in Vietn should have only done a few years nor do I think he should have been the only one who was especially prosecuted. Back to ww2 tho  The initial massacre was perpetrated by one unit. But throughout the day German units passing by would stop to pump rounds into GIs and kill any Americans who were begging for water or help.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Sublime