'Fallen Eagle" movie: Test Trailers

[Sublime]

On 6/2/2016 at 0:00 AM, Aragorn2002 said:

I think it is hilarious. All these overweighted old men.

I still have to see the first war movie about WW2 that is worth watching.

War movies about ww2 worth watching?

Easy.

Twelve O Clock High with Gregory Peck.

Das Boot

Stalingrad

Die Untergang (sp?)

[rocketman]

"The Thin Red Line" is definitely worth watching.

[AttorneyAtWar]

6 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I don't think they differed much from their army collegues. Some units were very good, some less so. You don't make a unit elite, just by putting a stamp with 'SS' on it. Having said that, they deserve respect, because they fought for their country and their family, just like any other soldier. They lost everything, so at least give them that. 

If Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan proved anything, it is that the habbit of shooting prisoners wasn't invented by the SS. I like to watch it, since there isn't anything better, but it is still full of glorified Hollywood rubbish.

I was being sarcastic, I am in agreement with you.

But people are obsessed with how "great" and well "equipped" the SS were, chances are if you see reenactors they are portraying the SS because muh Tiger and muh STG. Than you show them casualty figures and how they died in large numbers like everyone else and they either lash out or humble up a bit.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Raptorx7

[Aragorn2002]

58 minutes ago, Sublime said:

War movies about ww2 worth watching?

Easy.

Twelve O Clock High with Gregory Peck.

Das Boot

Stalingrad

Die Untergang (sp?)

Don't like any of them. Especially Stalingrad is horrible, with a Russian woman found in some depot, abused by Germans, fighting scenes are horrible too. Or that endscene of Die Untergang in which a woman (in a Heer uniform coat, if I recall correctly) walks between Russian soldiers unmolested...Fat chance in reality...

Thin Red Line is pretty good though.

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by Aragorn2002

[Aragorn2002]

3 hours ago, Abbasid111 said:

I agree that, aside from the beginning and end battles, Saving Private Ryan was standard Hollywood fare. Please tell me what glorified Hollywood rubbish you found on BOB.

Ah, yes, the famous Battle of Britain. How the RAF saved the world by keeping the Luftwaffe at bay. Very entertaining, but I don't think the Germans ever hoped for more than force Churchill to the negotiation table. The importance of the BOB is somewhat overrated, I think. But I must admit I like the movie. Great atmosphere.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Aragorn2002

[Abbasid111]

Battle of Britain was a nice movie for its time. The main attraction was the warbirsd of course.

When I said BOB I was actually referring to Band of Brothers

[Aragorn2002]

4 hours ago, Abbasid111 said:

I agree that, aside from the beginning and end battles, Saving Private Ryan was standard Hollywood fare. Please tell me what glorified Hollywood rubbish you found on BOB.

The storming of Foy and how Winters shoots a surrendering German soldier and rounds up the entire German army after that, springs to mind. Also the battle at or after Carentan, especially the attack of the German Jagdpanther and StuG. At least Band of Brothers is honest about the killing of prisoners and the plundering.

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by Aragorn2002

[Michael Emrys]

One thing you have to understand about Band of Brothers is that it was made heavily under the influence of Steven Ambrose who by the time he wrote the book was suffering from a particularly virulent case of hero worship. While I find a lot to like in BoB, there is the faint tinge of "our guys could do no wrong" that wafts through it. For my money, The Pacific, while often not as pleasant to watch, is a more honest depiction of its subject. Perhaps because in its case it was based on books written by men who were actually there and whose experiences form the backbone of the stories.

Michael

[Sublime]

Concur on the likelihood of any female german aged 5 to 80 walking between dozens of RA soldiers unmolested is almost impossible.

Die Untergang is probably the least realistic but still good especially compared to like U 507 or Pearl Harbor. Battle of Britain was a good movie from that period as was  A Bridge Too Far and Longest Day.

Sure lotsa myths and inaccuracies but nothing so glaring as Patton, Battle of the Bulge, etc.

The war movies I originally named may not be pretty but theyre good. I agree Stalingrad gets iffy towards the end but up until after the famed snow defense against T34s it was fantastic.

Das Boot is imprccable esp the 3 hr directors cut. Both that and Stalingrad have to be watched in German with subtitles to really do the job.

Yes Steven Ambrose  was basically in man love with the story and that waft of US can do no wrong is all over Citizen Soldiers the book as well. Not to mention the whole just making historical episodes up thing, made me lose almost all respect for him as a real historian.

[Aragorn2002]

22 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

One thing you have to understand about Band of Brothers is that it was made heavily under the influence of Steven Ambrose who by the time he wrote the book was suffering from a particularly virulent case of hero worship. While I find a lot to like in BoB, there is the faint tinge of "our guys could do no wrong" that wafts through it. For my money, The Pacific, while often not as pleasant to watch, is a more honest depiction of its subject. Perhaps because in its case it was based on books written by men who were actually there and whose experiences form the backbone of the stories.

Michael

Yes, I agree, The Pacific is much better. Same style as Thin Red Line and quite impressive.

[Aragorn2002]

13 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Concur on the likelihood of any female german aged 5 to 80 walking between dozens of RA soldiers unmolested is almost impossible.

Die Untergang is probably the least realistic but still good especially compared to like U 507 or Pearl Harbor. Battle of Britain was a good movie from that period as was  A Bridge Too Far and Longest Day.

Sure lotsa myths and inaccuracies but nothing so glaring as Patton, Battle of the Bulge, etc.

The war movies I originally named may not be pretty but theyre good. I agree Stalingrad gets iffy towards the end but up until after the famed snow defense against T34s it was fantastic.

Das Boot is imprccable esp the 3 hr directors cut. Both that and Stalingrad have to be watched in German with subtitles to really do the job.

Yes Steven Ambrose  was basically in man love with the story and that waft of US can do no wrong is all over Citizen Soldiers the book as well. Not to mention the whole just making historical episodes up thing, made me lose almost all respect for him as a real historian.

Bridge Too Far, yes, that really is a good movie. Made with respect for British, American AND German soldiers, as a good war movie should be.

[Warts 'n' all]

3 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

... "that endscene of Die Untergang in which a woman (in a Heer uniform coat, if I recall correctly) walks between Russian soldiers unmolested...Fat chance in reality..."

Are you suggesting that Traudl Junge was lying about that?

 

 

[Aragorn2002]

17 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Are you suggesting that Traudl Junge was lying about that?

That's very well impossible. She wouldn't be the first German rape victim who did so, in order to be able to live with the shame and face her family or husband.

But a lie or not, that scene doesn't do justice to reality and the more (probably much more) than two million German women who were raped by their Russian, French and American 'liberators'.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Aragorn2002

[AttorneyAtWar]

Doesn't this go both ways though?

You can't say that literally every woman would have been raped if they passed by a soldier in World War 2, that movie depicted a woman not being raped. There is nothing wrong with that, unless it is historically dishonest depicting a woman not being raped in your eyes which is just...strange.

[Warts 'n' all]

No one in their right mind would deny that rapes took place during WW2, or any other conflict for that matter. But that movie is about what happened to the people in that bunker. Therefore there is no reason to include rape scenes in the movie. And you have no evidence whatsoever to accuse Traudl Junge of being a liar. In fact it is an insult to her memory, and to the real victims of rape.

[Abbasid111]

Read C. Ryan's 'The Last Battle'. In fact read all of his books, 'A Bridge Too Far' and 'The Longest Day'. A much better writer and historian then Ambrose.

In particular his account of German POWs getting their throats slit in retaliation for Deippe by Canadian troops on D-Day. And this was published in 1959.

[Aragorn2002]

15 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

No one in their right mind would deny that rapes took place during WW2, or any other conflict for that matter. But that movie is about what happened to the people in that bunker. Therefore there is no reason to include rape scenes in the movie. And you have no evidence whatsoever to accuse Traudl Junge of being a liar. In fact it is an insult to her memory, and to the real victims of rape.

Feeling ashamed about being raped and chosing not to talk about it, isn't the same as lying. I'm not claiming she was raped, I just say that it would be a miracle if she was one of those few women in Berlin that weren't. And spare me your nonsense about insult.

[Aragorn2002]

19 minutes ago, Raptorx7 said:

Doesn't this go both ways though?

You can't say that literally every woman would have been raped if they passed by a soldier in World War 2, that movie depicted a woman not being raped. There is nothing wrong with that, unless it is historically dishonest depicting a woman not being raped in your eyes which is just...strange.

Did you ever read a book about what was going on in Berlin in those days? I hope not, because if you have, your answer is even more....strange.

[Abbasid111]

My vote for best, most accurate WW2 movie is 'Das Boot'. That movie has got the claustrophobic feeling and the long hours of boredom you would encounter on any submarine in the war. The director actually forbade the cast to go out in the sun for 6 months so they would have a natural palour about them without using makeup.

 

 

 

[Aragorn2002]

15 minutes ago, Abbasid111 said:

Read C. Ryan's 'The Last Battle'. In fact read all of his books, 'A Bridge Too Far' and 'The Longest Day'. A much better writer and historian then Ambrose.

In particular his account of German POWs getting their throats slit in retaliation for Deippe by Canadian troops on D-Day. And this was published in 1959.

Both sides killed POW's. Without exception. That's what war does with men.

[AttorneyAtWar]

7 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Did you ever read a book about what was going on in Berlin in those days? I hope not, because if you have, your answer is even more....strange.

Don't insult my intelligence, because I never discounted what you said about Allied rape, especially the Soviets when they entered Germany.

I only attacked the idea that a woman portrayed in a World War 2 movie near soldiers must be raped or its "Unhistorical" which is still a very strange viewpoint in my opinion.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Raptorx7

[Abbasid111]

You didn't need to wait for Band of Brothers for honesty about the killing of German prisoners...it was in mass market print half a century before Band appeared in print or on a tv.

[Sublime]

I personally never meant it unlikely a German woman could walk past any soldier without being raped, rather a German woman i that particular time in Berlin walking between a row of A LOT of soldiers of xan army that was famous for its raping and pillaging in that battle and in Germany in general after the war. Of course its not like the Germans didnt do the same to the Russians or perhaps werent even nastier and its really rather silly to debate who was a more awful group of conquerors to eachother.

And let us not forget the proofs in the pudding as far as the Germans *knowing* how atrociously their state had acted in Russia along with the propaganda that led to the largest man made migration in recorded history.

As for Frau Junge... Ive read many of her accounts theyre interesting and shed a lot of light on  Hitler. If she is to be 100 percent believed. Of course everyone makes errors in memory or sees certain events differently so I dont ever take anyones opinion of a person or event 100 percent as gospel but that doesnt mean I assume people generally will lie about things. Of course that being said is different than testimony from high ranking Nazis and their flunkies and secretaries. To be honest I dont know whether the woman is a liar or not - I never met her, wasnt there, and I certainly do know that shes oft cited discussing one of the most researvhed events in history and ive never heard it suggested she fabricated things

Edited June 3, 2016 by Sublime

[Anthony P.]

So apart from it being a pretty fictional scene (e.g. I've never read of Junge and that Hitler Jugend boy meeting up), do you really think that that would've been a smart time to start raping anyone? Loads of very recently surrendered German soldiers who may very well feel they have very little left to live for, who haven't been frisked for firearms, knives, grenades, etc. Yeah, I'd rather not do anything that might upset them anymore than absolutely necessary in such a situation, and especially not something that'd take all of my attention away from these people whilst in the midst of them.

Besides, for all the rape and plunder the Red Army made itself infamous for, I don't think very many soldiers engaged in it in the middle of a mission, at least not when under the direct sight of their CO.

[kevinkin]

Cross of Iron had a pretty good story line that conformed to all the Hollywood norms and the cinematography was also good for the 70's. But once a viewer reads a bit about military history/warfare and play warfare sims like CM movies do not seem to cut it anymore. But I was never a big movie goer anyway.  

Kevin