Is CMSF worth buying?

[Sprint31]

In comparison to the more current games, is Shock Force worth picking up?  It and Afghanistan are the only two CMx2 games I don't own.

[grunt_GI]

I personally own all the games except CM:A and I play CMSF a LOT...it is a bit dated, but still very playable...and there is a LOT of content for it...

and if you own a Mac like I do, the bundle price is hard to beat.

 

[Sprint31]

Is there anything particularly frustrating/backwards about it?  I've played the demo for a bit and the camera movement compared to the v3 games is annoying me.  I sadly didn't discover Battlefronts offering until about a year and a half ago. So, I only have experience with the v3 engine really.  I've been a miniature table-top gamer for about 26 years now and these games are a dream come true with that perspective.  On PC the base game plus the bundle of the modules is the same price as the mac version.  Edit($5 cheaper actually)

Edited April 26, 2016 by Sprint31

[Kevin2k]

I am rather new to the Combat Mission games, but what I really noticed missing in Shock Force are moveable waypoints and lack of the Quick Battle Map+Force selection screens. 

[Kevin2k]

In the SimHQ review it was stated that the CMSF base game had rather small maps. Later it was said that with the Marines Expansion the new maps had sufficient size for maneuvers,

[Sprint31]

I guess the heart of the issue is this: as someone who is completely used to engine 3, will stepping back to v1 be too frustrating without nostalgia goggles on?

[grunt_GI]

I will say if you measure CMSF to the current games, you will be disappointed with several things:

• The QB system sucks...apologies to BFC, but there is a reason the newer games have QB maps and Force Selection.  I was one of the many guys who complained about this for a long time...keep in mind I enjoy CMSF so much I bought a full set for both PC and Mac (I went a while between Macs and played CMSF on Bootcamp) but the QB system is weird to say the least.  It can be manipulated to a certain extent, but is very frustrating at times.
• The game controls and moveable waypoints haven't been a big deal for me...yes, the V3 engine has a lot more features, but the basic gameplay is pretty much the same, at least from my perspective.  However, the mix of units is pretty darn good if you want to play US or NATO...or even Red on Red games.

However, there are many good things as well:

• There is a lot of content-I have 24 campaigns and over 200 scenarios as well as 164 QB maps.  The user community REALLY stepped up for this title.  What I personally like is that there are several campaigns/scenarios inspired by real world operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, a personal interest of mine.
• With some manipulation or a really good scenario, it gives you a great sense of what fighting insurgent and/or conventional military forces is like.

To summarize:  Yes, CMSF is an older game without many V3 features and the QB system sux, but it is well worth the price and offers a very different game perspective than the WW2 titles or even CMBS.

[Sprint31]

Well, I bought the whole package. Chris saying that 4.0 will eventually make it's way to SF gives me hope that this title will stick around.  I bought the base game for 15 bucks, messed around with it a bit, and that was enough to convince me to pick up the bundle of modules.  Which, by the way, was indeed the same price as the mac version (I saw save 35).  $55 for the whole kit 'n caboodle.  It's my berfday so what the hell?

[Buzz]

grunt_GI's advice is solid.

Another interesting part of the CMSF Bundle = the differences in equipment. You may be surprised when you start playing around with different kits from different countries. Have Fun ?. Enjoy your berfday.

Buzz

[grunt_GI]

3 hours ago, Sprint31 said:

Well, I bought the whole package. Chris saying that 4.0 will eventually make it's way to SF gives me hope that this title will stick around.  I bought the base game for 15 bucks, messed around with it a bit, and that was enough to convince me to pick up the bundle of modules.  Which, by the way, was indeed the same price as the mac version (I saw save 35).  $55 for the whole kit 'n caboodle.  It's my berfday so what the hell?

I think you will enjoy it a lot...just don't measure it against the games with the V3 engine, and weigh it as a stand alone title...and try not to get too annoyed at the farked up QB system...  I haven't figured out how yet...

[Sprint31]

To be honest the QB's in all the other titles aren't that great anyway. Unless you pick the force for the AI and attack, it'll be pretty damn boring/pointless anywho.   Black Sea is OK.  I think for the rest they just need to have combined arms "lists" that the AI picks from much like whats available in BS, unless you specifically forbid the AI from doing so.   Not much in to mp for these titles cause if I wanna play a human it's time to bust out the tape measures and dice and put ye ol gaming table in my basement back to work which I don't do often enough (CM hasn't helped that one iota ;)) 

[MOS:96B2P]

13 hours ago, Sprint31 said:

Well, I bought the whole package. Chris saying that 4.0 will eventually make it's way to SF gives me hope that this title will stick around.  <Snip>  

I think you will enjoy it. I am currently playing the newly created and excellent scenario operation MINIMIZE (See below link).  I also find the comment by Chris to be very encouraging.  There has been a lot of talk about an upgrade but I hadn't heard anything from BFC in awhile.  

 

 

[cns180784]

I have CMSF with all modules and CM: Afghanistan. I would recommend getting both and the fact that CM:A accurately depicts the Soviet-Afghan war in the 80's. I will at some point get Black Sea and probably the WW2 ones. Can someone tell me which scenarios and campaigns there are for CMSF that are based on the ISAF war in Afghanistan against the Taliban? thanks in advance.

[grunt_GI]

3 hours ago, cns180784 said:

I have CMSF with all modules and CM: Afghanistan. I would recommend getting both and the fact that CM:A accurately depicts the Soviet-Afghan war in the 80's. I will at some point get Black Sea and probably the WW2 ones. Can someone tell me which scenarios and campaigns there are for CMSF that are based on the ISAF war in Afghanistan against the Taliban? thanks in advance.

Well the descriptions on the Scenario Depot are pretty good...there are several others as well...once they ALL get uploaded the descriptions will tell you which ones are from Afghanistan.

OK, so for all you new guys, send me a PM and I will send you a link to all my CMSF Campaigns and Scenarios...you can sort through them and do with them what you want.

Edited April 27, 2016 by grunt_GI

[cns180784]

After looking through the repository on the BFC site for CMSF British Forces i've just found one scenario called "Into the Green" but the only way i knew or at least suspected it was a scenario based on the recent ISAF conflict in Afghanistan was due to the title "Into the Green" referring to the green zone which in this scenario is in Sangin, Helmand Province. Exactly what i'm looking for, only i'd love for there to be a full campaign, do you know of any?

[grunt_GI]

28 minutes ago, cns180784 said:

After looking through the repository on the BFC site for CMSF British Forces i've just found one scenario called "Into the Green" but the only way i knew or at least suspected it was a scenario based on the recent ISAF conflict in Afghanistan was due to the title "Into the Green" referring to the green zone which in this scenario is in Sangin, Helmand Province. Exactly what i'm looking for, only i'd love for there to be a full campaign, do you know of any?

SO. there are no campaigns I have found dealing with Afghanistan...there are several scenarios...I can load them on my Dropbox if you send me a PM...I have a bunch of scenarios...you can choose the Afghan ones if you like.

[cns180784]

Yea i went through them and found no campaigns but i have all the scenarios. Just looked at In the Green and it looks awesome. In depth and detailed briefing, great map with actual real life forces that were there in Sangin at the time. This will be fun.

[Combatintman]

Bit of self-promotion but here we go ....

Into the Green is one of my more recent creations. Here are my other Afghan Missions.

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/cm-shock-force-2/cm-shock-force/op-minimise/

This is fictional but representative and the map is a real location in the Sangin Valley

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/cm-shock-force-2/cm-shock-force/zumbelay-withdrawal/

This one is a based on a real action during Op HERRICK 4 and maps the actual location (Zumbelay)

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/cm-shock-force-2/cm-shock-force/operation-glacier-4/

This one is based on a real action that took place during Op HERRICK 5 and again is mapped to the actual location (Garmsir)

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/cm-shock-force-2/cm-shock-force/operation-glacier-2/

This one is based on the attack on Jugroom Fort during Op HERRICK 5 and again is mapped to the actual location

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/cm-shock-force-2/cm-shock-force/operation-glacier-1/

This one is based on an action during Op HERRICK 5 and again is mapped to the actual location

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/cm-shock-force-2/cm-shock-force/habibollah-kalay/

This one is based on an action during Op HERRICK 5 and again is mapped to the actual location

Most of this work represents my early fumblings around in the editor - I think they are fun missions but at the time I never really understood how VPs worked and I hadn't learnt the trick of having 'never arriving' reinforcements so some of them trigger AI surrenders earlier than I'd really like. Why my interest in Op HERRICK 5?  I was on it.

I've done a couple of Iraq Missions as well ...

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3/cm-shock-force-2/cm-shock-force/cimic-house/

This one is set in Al Amarah - mapped to the real location and represents Op HAMMERSMITH.

And the other one I can't seem to find at all - if you want a copy PM me. It is set in Fallujah and based on a real action with a real map (albeit with horribly squiggly roads).

[Combatintman]

Ok found the Fallujah Mission here's the link ...

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=2869

[General Jack Ripper]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 7:32 PM, Sprint31 said:

Is there anything particularly frustrating/backwards about it?  I've played the demo for a bit and the camera movement compared to the v3 games is annoying me.  I sadly didn't discover Battlefronts offering until about a year and a half ago. So, I only have experience with the v3 engine really.

If you only have experience with the v3 engine, playing Shock Force will feel a bit frustrating.

However, Shock Force still has some unique qualities to it, such as unconventional warfare elements. So I would say it's still worth buying.

[grunt_GI]

11 hours ago, cns180784 said:

Yea i went through them and found no campaigns but i have all the scenarios. Just looked at In the Green and it looks awesome. In depth and detailed briefing, great map with actual real life forces that were there in Sangin at the time. This will be fun.

So, you should be off and going!  Combatintman makes some good stuff...

[cns180784]

13 hours ago, Combatintman said:

Ok found the Fallujah Mission here's the link ...

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=2869

From reading the briefing and studying the tactical map and battlefield, i had a feeling you were there, in the Army. Its' so well detailed including the troops, and what got me was that i just finished watching Ross Kemp Return to Afghanistan- the episode where he goes out on Patrol with the 1 Royal Irish OMLT and the ANA south of Musa Qaleh and those very same troops are in that scenario you made. So you served in the Royal Marines?

 

Just a few questions regarding the Into the Green scenario. In the main briefing screen, the top right map where its got the key section, does TIC stand for Troops In Contact? if so, or not, what does it indicate? a potential ambush location set up by the Taliban?

Also the others in the key section- i've gathered (i think) that PPIED stands for Pre Planned Improvised Explosive Device, telling me this is pretty much a certain spot for an IED, but what does CW and RC stand for?

Another thing is the black boxes on the tactical map, in the briefing it says these are NAI's/TAI's...what are these? you obviously know a lot more than I on military terminology having yourself been on Op HERRICK 5 in RL, i'm a newbie when it comes to terminology. Thanks in advance.

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by cns180784

[cns180784]

Just some things i'd like to bring to your attention regarding the snipers attached to 2 Para and the FOO/MFC and JTAC's;

 

In the TASKORG it has one sniper team to be attached to the assault group with the other attached to the support group. Both are under B company HQ's command so i was wondering, as the sniper team assigned to the support group will have to communicate with B company HQ via radio- will this have an effect on their abilities even though they'll have 2 Para HQ with them in the support group? i thought with having 2 Para HQ attached to the support group that would automatically make them the direct superior to the sniper team but i guess not. Also for the TASKORG theres' no mention of the Troop HQ for 9 Fd Sqn RE, do these go out with 5 Section part of the assault group or stay with the other sections at FOB Alma?

One other thing is the one MFC and JTAC have the same ability as the FOO to call in fire missions for the 105's, i would have thought the FOO would have a solid thick green cross for the 105's like the MFC's have for calling in the mortars but he doesnt. Not a major issue but thought i'd mention it.

Edited April 29, 2016 by cns180784

[Sprint31]

13 hours ago, SLIM said:

If you only have experience with the v3 engine, playing Shock Force will feel a bit frustrating.

However, Shock Force still has some unique qualities to it, such as unconventional warfare elements. So I would say it's still worth buying.

After having a little time to play with it, I'd say the thing I notice most is the lack of functionality with regard to selecting forces for scenarios.  The QB thing is what it is, but the changes from then 'til now in the force selection arena are pretty striking.   The camera movement issue was addressed with the last patch (which for some reason the demo still has issues with).  That was going to drive me nuts, but luckily, a non-issue.  Overall, the actual game play differences are almost nil.  Not to say it doesn't play differently, but no differently than would be expected.  

[grunt_GI]

14 hours ago, Sprint31 said:

After having a little time to play with it, I'd say the thing I notice most is the lack of functionality with regard to selecting forces for scenarios.  The QB thing is what it is, but the changes from then 'til now in the force selection arena are pretty striking.   The camera movement issue was addressed with the last patch (which for some reason the demo still has issues with).  That was going to drive me nuts, but luckily, a non-issue.  Overall, the actual game play differences are almost nil.  Not to say it doesn't play differently, but no differently than would be expected.  

Yup...the entire CMSF QB system SUCKED...which is why the system is SOOO much better now...not only do you get some really bizarre force mixes for your self, but I once had an infantry company attack 8 dug-in Syrian T-72s...yup, just the tanks, without any Javelins...needless to say, that battle didn't end well.

BUT, overall the game has a lot of life left in it...