Artillery and "soft" ground.

[iluvmy88]

 Re guarding artillery and mud/soft ground, does this decrease its effectiveness in game? just a curiosity.

[MikeyD]

Ooooooohhh.... I know this very topic was discussed in Beta and 'alterations' were made but I simply cannot recall what was done. Someone with better long-term memory than me will have to answer.

[rocketman]

IIRC I did some tests with marshes in CMRT vs "hard" ground and came to the conclusion that there was not a major difference. The tests were not extensive.

[womble]

MikeyD is suggesting that there may be differences made in FB's coding.

How about running some of those same tests since you've got a methodology worked out already?

[rocketman]

I might have a look at it, though no promises as I have a lack of time right now. 

[Bulletpoint]

4 hours ago, iluvmy88 said:

 Re guarding artillery and mud/soft ground, does this decrease its effectiveness in game? just a curiosity.

Well I am pretty sure it makes a difference. I just bought and started playing the CMBN Commonwealth module, and it's raining non-stop in the first missions. I noticed that quite a few of the mortar shells I'm firing seem to be duds, they make just a small puff on the ground and fail to explode. I never noticed this effect before, despite playing regular CMBN for more than two years (all missions in dry weather). So, I'm inclined to believe that rainy conditions makes ground more soft, which increases the risk of shells failing to explode.

However, this is about regular "grass" terrain, under rainy conditions. I am not sure if muddy terrain becomes more muddy during rain, or if it's just a general modifier to all terrain while it's raining.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Bulletpoint

[iluvmy88]

Thanks for the replys everyone, i will start watching my rounds and lt you know if i notice anything, if i get time ill build a test map if we dont get a definitive answer

[user1000]

In real life slush etc would make some tank HE not even go off. Mortar rounds would not work good etc.

Edited April 15, 2016 by user1000

[John Kettler]

For both the Western Front and the Eastern Front a bit of digging will provide numerous accounts attesting to the reduced effectiveness of HE in mud and snow. I want to say there was something on this, too, in the pertinent volume the Army produced based on debriefing German generals who served in Russia, but I can't recall what the series title was.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited April 16, 2016 by John Kettler

[iluvmy88]

3 hours ago, John Kettler said:

For both the Western Front and the Eastern Front a bit of digging will provide numerous accounts attesting to the reduced effectiveness of HE in mud and snow. I want to say there was something on this, too, in the pertinent volume the Army produced based on debriefing German generals who served in Russia, but I can't recall what the series title was.

Regards,

John Kettler

Theres no debating that it reduces th effectivness. Back in WW1 they knew this. th shells would sink too deep in the soil before exploding or just not explode at all. this is one of the biggest reason to m in developing the VT fuse. its really more of a question of if it is modeled in the game, i was just more curious for QB purchasing. not gonna load up on mortars if its all muddy.

[womble]

Aye, the question has always been "Is the reduced effectiveness modelled in the game?". And shadings thereof like "Maybe they changed it for CMFB and omitted the telling us about it part, so perhaps some testing* in the FB environment is warranted." 

 

* Testing that anyone at all with the game can undertake.

[Vanir Ausf B]

It makes a small difference, probably understated compared to reality, but it's there. Muddy terrain tiles have a greater effect than muddy ground conditions. Deep snow has a micro-terrain magnification effect that reduced casualties from all causes. But again, these effects are more subtle than dramatic so I would not let it effect my QB unit purchases in that regard.

[MikeyD]

Artillery was already 'nerfed' a bit to compensate for the game engine causing units to necessarily cluster around action squares. So the effect of artillery more resembles hitting a more dispersed unit. 

I just looked, in the CMBN v3.12 patch info there's the line:

•  Some micro terrain, such as rocky ground, now provides more protection from high explosives.

I think that phrase 'some micro terrain' is the key. Terrain elements got massaged up-and-down a bit, some types more than others. And that tweaking of course also got applied to the CMFB release. Perhaps only Charles knows precisely what got adjusted and by how much.
 

[Vanir Ausf B]

That line in the patch notes conflates two different changes. Micro terrain effects everything, not just HE.