Wounded to KIA

[Heirloom_Tomato]

Just played a scenario after updating to 3.12  I sent out a scout team and one of my men got shot and fall down wounded. About 5 seconds later another shot rang out, hitting the same man, killing him. I have never seen this before in game. Is this something new to 3.12 or has it been in game the whole time and I just have never noticed?

Either way, it was very cool to see!

 

[A Canadian Cat]

Wow cool - I have only noticed it once before my self but I think it happens more often than we notice.  It has always been in the game.

[sburke]

correct, it has always been in, but seeing examples as clear as the one you did is a bit rare.  You really have to be paying attention.  I think it occurs more often with arty strikes, but again you have to actually pay attention really closely and yeah it is pretty cool.  What I have still to get a good perspective is how much buddy aid actually keeps WIA guys from being KIA.  I still spend a lot of effort on it, but I can't really say I know how much I am impacting my casualty figures.

[Macisle]

I've noticed this a lot in game with ordnance/arty/grenades, but not as often with bullets.

A very nice touch and one that sometimes creates a moral dilemma: to area fire when there are wounded present or not?

Edited March 2, 2016 by Macisle

[Heirloom_Tomato]

So I ran a quick test, one full battalion per side, a hump in the middle of a grass field. Both sides meet in the middle for 5 minutes of chaos. While watching all the shooting there were indeed a bunch of guys who went from wounded to dead after grenades were tossed, mortars landed or rifle fire came their way. At the end of 5 minutes I saved the game and then surrendered.

The US:

315 men OK 

211 KIA

88 WIA.  

The Germans

171 men OK

195 KIA

69 WIA.

 I then reloaded the turn and proceeded to buddy aid as many guys as I could over the next 25 minutes. There was some shooting still as there were a few broken units who refused to move and were killed off when the buddy aid teams came to the rescue. The final tally:

The US:

315 OK

201 KIA

98 WIA

The Germans

159 OK

178 KIA

99 WIA

Buddy aid certainly pays off. It saved the lives of 10 Americans and 17 Germans.

[Macisle]

Yeah, I do buddy aid religiously, unless it's too hot to get to the wounded.

[sburke]

very cool, thanks Heirloom!

[Michael Emrys]

I've seen wounded go to dead quite a number of times, including amber wounded go either directly to dead or to scarlet wounded and then dead. It happens more often when HE is involved, but bullets will do it too, especially if MG fire is involved.

Michael

[Bozowans]

The AI can be hilariously sadistic in this game. I've seen guys keep firing into dead/wounded bodies on the ground quite often. I've seen SMG guys bump into an enemy at point blank range, kill him, then unload the rest of the magazine into the corpse at his feet. I've seen riflemen casually snap off a round into a corpse as they walk by, shortly after clearing the position. There's always a delay before the AI will stop firing, so sometimes they'll shoot people as they're surrendering.

I swear one time I saw one of my men shoot a corpse and it must have been 20+ seconds after the position had already been cleared. It was all quiet and we were already moving onto the next position when *bang* some guy fired right into a random body.

Even though there isn't any blood or gore in the game, it can still be disturbing to watch sometimes. Half the time your men are gunning people down as they lie scared and cowering in a hole in the ground. And then you watch a guy calmly cycle the bolt on his rifle and fire two more shots into a body at his feet before moving on.

[Doc844]

I always try to buddy aid,  especially in campaigns for obvious reasons however I do have 1 question.  In my last battle which is the second mission of one of the Normandy campaigns, my final assault was to actually take a town and I suffered a bit but had to kep the momentum up so my buddy aid was patchy at best.  However the Germans broke and surrendered so the battle ended, so what happens to the guys who were lying wounded on the floor.  Do they get policed up and treated as being buddy aided?

[General Jack Ripper]

So I ran a quick test, one full battalion per side, a hump in the middle of a grass field. Both sides meet in the middle for 5 minutes of chaos.

Now that is my type of game testing right there!

[A Canadian Cat]

Buddy aid certainly pays off. It saved the lives of 10 Americans and 17 Germans.

Cool, test thanks for doing it.  Very interesting to actually have some numbers.  If you still have the saves can you try one more thing?  I am curious if the counts change much if the wounded lie there for 25 minutes.  In other words you have the numbers from stopping after 5 minutes and the numbers for maximum buddy aid.  I am curious if leaving the wounded lying around after the fighting stops for 25 minutes would make things worse.

[Heirloom_Tomato]

Cool, test thanks for doing it.  Very interesting to actually have some numbers.  If you still have the saves can you try one more thing?  I am curious if the counts change much if the wounded lie there for 25 minutes.  In other words you have the numbers from stopping after 5 minutes and the numbers for maximum buddy aid.  I am curious if leaving the wounded lying around after the fighting stops for 25 minutes would make things worse.

I have the save and will test this out later tonight.

[Heirloom_Tomato]

After running through the remaining turns, it looks like there is a random chance things will be worse or better. The US had 7 more KIA after the extra 25 minutes but the Germans had 3 less. So I reloaded the save, advanced the game by one minute and then surrendered again. The US had 8 more KIA and the Germans 1 less. So while doing buddy definitely saves lives, leaving the wounded for 5 minutes or for 25 minutes seems to make no difference.   

[A Canadian Cat]

Very interesting. Thanks for checking.

[c3k]

The AI can be hilariously sadistic in this game. I've seen guys keep firing into dead/wounded bodies on the ground quite often. I've seen SMG guys bump into an enemy at point blank range, kill him, then unload the rest of the magazine into the corpse at his feet. I've seen riflemen casually snap off a round into a corpse as they walk by, shortly after clearing the position. There's always a delay before the AI will stop firing, so sometimes they'll shoot people as they're surrendering.

I swear one time I saw one of my men shoot a corpse and it must have been 20+ seconds after the position had already been cleared. It was all quiet and we were already moving onto the next position when *bang* some guy fired right into a random body.

Even though there isn't any blood or gore in the game, it can still be disturbing to watch sometimes. Half the time your men are gunning people down as they lie scared and cowering in a hole in the ground. And then you watch a guy calmly cycle the bolt on his rifle and fire two more shots into a body at his feet before moving on.

It was this sort of "shooting the surrendering guy in the back" which occurred in one of my early CMBN beta tests. There are several "gaming moments" which are indelibly etched in my memory. That was one such moment. Totally gut wrenching when I saw it. That's one of the reasons why I heavily prefer the WeGo play: you can catch moments like this which occur across the battlefield. In RealTime you are probably going to miss it...forever.

Heirloom Tomato: Nice test. Like others, I've noticed this sort of behavior for awhile and assumed we all knew about. (The way the game can increase the yellow/red/brown WIA status based on further wounding.) Pretty cool, huh? Your test was a nice way to see the benefit of buddy aid. I try to use it as much as I can. Not only does it help me get better weapons (sometimes), but it helps the WIA/KIA point balance at the end of the game, and I also get to keep any change I find in their pockets.

Find another game this detailed. 

Ken