Bulletpoint Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I just noticed something odd: When you have a deployed machinegun and it spots an enemy, only the actual machinegun opens fire.The rest of the team just stands around, even though they would have a clear shot with their rifles. Although they run to windows to take up positions as if to open fire, they never do. Is this intentional, and if so, why? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHEqTRO Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Hmm, usually the guys that are with the machine gun are there just to keep the machine gun operational, so I guess that in a real life situation they will just stay behind the gun. To be honest, I find more weird the fact that the soldiers take actual fire positions than actually the abscense of shooting to enemys . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Mostly the extra guys are there to fetch and carry ammo and other equipment. You might see them pick up their rifles and fire if the enemy gets close and constitutes an immediate threat. They might also help with spotting, although that would mostly be the job of the leader with his binocs.Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Would be nice if the ammo fetchers stayed low, and just the gunner and the guy with the binoculars took up position... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Is this intentional, and if so, why?Yes, because people complained about it when it was the other way around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehead Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Team leader is looking for targets, gunner is shooting, and the loader is well...loading. Firing their rifles could distract them from their duties as people tend to get tunnel vision when engaing a target.The machinegun is considered to be the most casualty producing weapon a platoon can bring to bear. Firing a few extra rifle rounds would be rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Issue answered already so I'll just add that if the team spots nearby threats then the other team members will start engaging to protect the team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share Posted February 8, 2016 Issue answered already so I'll just add that if the team spots nearby threats then the other team members will start engaging to protect the team. Apparently not in my current game... maybe they only do so at exreme close range? (in my game the enemy is at around 60-70 metres distance) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Interesting I have no idea what is needed to trigger the self preservation behaviour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Apparently not in my current game... maybe they only do so at exreme close range? (in my game the enemy is at around 60-70 metres distance)What are the soft factors of your team?Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user1000 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) @ Op good question. Does the loader have to watch the belt the whole time it seems as though at least the US side when the belt is loaded it's good for awhile until it runs out again. The loader in the meantime I would imagine is using the rifle or spotting. Can't the gunner hold the belt and fire or no? Doesn't it unfold from the box ok? It might depend on the machine gun. And mg team doctrine if anyone can find it. May be here http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/ Edited February 9, 2016 by user1000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The loader would be doing exactly what you see in the last pic - making sure the belt does not become twisted as the ammo is fired. You can't expect the gunner to fire the gun and hold the belt at the same time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JyriErik Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Loader's job is to keep the belt being fired from kinking up or getting jammed, also when nearing the end of one ammo belt to attach the next belt allow the gunner to keep up fire. Also changes the barrel when needed. The rest of the team is supposed to keep their eyes open for enemy movement from other angles & let the leader know asap, plus close defense if necessary. Oh, and the loader also carries the tripod in an MG-42 squad. 45 lbs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Leader, loader and gunner are of course busy But the German MG team has 5 members. I was wondering why the other two guys didn't shoot. If they are trying to keep their eyes open to prevent flanking, that would make sense, but then why are they not looking the other direction instead of looking towards the target? Edited February 9, 2016 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 What are the soft factors of your team?MichaelThey're green with neutral soft factors (neither negative nor positive)... Of course green soldiers are slower to spot and react, but in this case, they had definitely spotted the enemy and were opening up with their machinegun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I´d also wish for the (german) ammo bearers to stay low as was historically the case, unless they were forced to engage in close combat. If the latter happens, then I´d consider a players HMG employment in the game somewhat ....faulty, so to say. HMG´s need to be covered with infantry and preferably engage targets only at ranges above 300m.Still wonder about BFC decision to just have for a selected number of MG units (US MMG i.e) the ammo bearers seperated in a 2nd team. Maybe too much of a burden for an AI player to handle them properly... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 I´d also wish for the (german) ammo bearers to stay low as was historically the case, unless they were forced to engage in close combat. If the latter happens, then I´d consider a players HMG employment in the game somewhat ....faulty, so to say. HMG´s need to be covered with infantry and preferably engage targets only at ranges above 300m.I agree, but often, doctrine meets reality. Maybe as a player, I'm supposed to undeploy the MG team if the combat takes place at close ranges? In that case, the gunner would fire the MG as "semideployed", and the rest of the team would also fire. I guess at very close ranges you don't need the extra accuracy of the mounted machinegun... maybe. Still wonder about BFC decision to just have for a selected number of MG units (US MMG i.e) the ammo bearers seperated in a 2nd team. Maybe too much of a burden for an AI player to handle them properly...I wonder the same thing, until now I just assumed it was a doctrinal difference. Surely if the AI can handle American MG ammo carriers being separate teams, it should also be able to handle the Germans the same way. Or so it seems to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I wonder the same thing, until now I just assumed it was a doctrinal difference. Surely if the AI can handle American MG ammo carriers being separate teams, it should also be able to handle the Germans the same way. Or so it seems to me.I notice that one consequence of the separate ammo bearers is that if need be, they can run back to a vehicle or ammo dump and grab some more while the MG stays in place and carries on its good work.Michael Edited February 9, 2016 by Michael Emrys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 I notice that one consequence of the separate ammo bearers is that if need be, they can run back to a vehicle or ammo dump and grab some more while the MG stays in place and carries on its good work.MichaelYes, it's very useful for many things. Also for watching the flank. Or even just to have one more team to create more contact markers for the enemy and cause confusion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I´d also wish for the (german) ammo bearers to stay low as was historically the case, unless they were forced to engage in close combat. If the latter happens, then I´d consider a players HMG employment in the game somewhat ....faulty, so to say. HMG´s need to be covered with infantry and preferably engage targets only at ranges above 300m.Still wonder about BFC decision to just have for a selected number of MG units (US MMG i.e) the ammo bearers seperated in a 2nd team. Maybe too much of a burden for an AI player to handle them properly...I agree, in my opinion all MG teams should be split in two teams like mortars and ATGs. In fact, some already are, at least in some German recon TOEs where the infantry is driving around in VWs. The way it is now the MG teams are just too large to fit in one action spot and since the ammo bearers often don't stay low they are unnecessarily prone to suffering casualties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I agree, in my opinion all MG teams should be split in two teams like mortars and ATGs. In fact, some already are, at least in some German recon TOEs where the infantry is driving around in VWs. The way it is now the MG teams are just too large to fit in one action spot and since the ammo bearers often don't stay low they are unnecessarily prone to suffering casualties.Yep, the (only) german ones are in Para regimental recce company. The reason maybe is that it´s the only way to have a full HMG team fit among the Orbat´s single kubelwagons.Could be that BFC figured initially that the german HMG teams will not stay long in battle if the gun team just contains the 3 main guys (leader, gunner, assistant). If the gunner is KIA, the remaining guys rotate til the last man is fallen (assuming the MG does not get knocked out, or the whole unit routed beforehand). So a 5 man team generally gets the HMG to stay longer in battle. Then it´s mainly a (somewhat doubtful) gameplay decision and not related to RL WW2 tactics and doctrines. If that´s the case, BFC could at least offer 2 variations, with one beeing the "normal" full team and the other with the ammo beares in a seperate team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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