Why No Shot??

[76mm]

I still haven't played CMRT as much as I would like, have been kinda busy. Anyway, I fired up a scenario this morning, brilliantly maneuvered my T34/85 into a flank firing position against a Panther, gave the "Target" command, and waited...and waited...and waited...

Ultimately nothing happened...after about 2 1/2 minutes, the Panther decided it had better things to do, and casually pulled back, exposing its rear to my tank...still no shot.

Here are some screenshots. Note that the Panther was spotted by my vehicle, I could give a Target command to fire on the Panther, my tank had ammo, gun was not damaged, etc. The TC was even unbuttoned... There are a few trees around, but the tank was spotted and I got a targetting line, so...

Any rational explanation would be helpful, because these kind of situations are very demoralizing...

My tank after 2 minutes:

My tank after about 2 1/2 minutes, when the Panther pulls back:

[Vanir Ausf B]

Question: what was the loader doing during this time, according to the readout on the left side of the screen? Was he cycling between aiming and firing over and over?

[BLSTK]

At the risk of stating the obvious, I see no gunner mentioned in the UI. And yet there are clearly four green lights suggesting a full crew. Something doesn't jive.

[ASL Veteran]

The commander is the gunner so if he has his head outside the hatch he can't fire the gun. However, I would think that the game would automatically button him up so he can take the shot.

[womble]

It's the trees. Almost definitely. With the commander having to change position to shoot, what you see with the target line (red line: "all crew can see it") might well be deceptive.

[76mm]

All of the crew members were "spotting", not cycling with anything else that I noticed.

Also, as soon as the Panther retreated out of LoS, the TC buttoned up!

[76mm]

It's the trees. Almost definitely. With the commander having to change position to shoot, what you see with the target line (red line: "all crew can see it") might well be deceptive.

You might be right, although I'm not sure that I understand what this is supposed to represent--a fat tree trunk sitting right in front of the gunner's sight? Doesn't it seem like the TC, who had just seen the Panther from the hatch, would rotate the turret back and forth a bit until he found it? Just seems odd...

[womble]

You might be right, although I'm not sure that I understand what this is supposed to represent--a fat tree trunk sitting right in front of the gunner's sight? Doesn't it seem like the TC, who had just seen the Panther from the hatch, would rotate the turret back and forth a bit until he found it? Just seems odd...

As players we naturally seek edge conditions: if we can just stay that bit more hidden/protected we get an advantage. Unfortunately, edge conditions like that do tend to highlight program limitations.

[Lanzfeld]

Try showing the full trees foliage and that would explain it better.

[76mm]

Try showing the full trees foliage and that would explain it better.

But can you issue a target command if the gun doesn't have LOS? Doesn't really make sense...

[Felix_45]

If after the first minute nothing happens give your tank a hunt command it will move, stop and shoot once the barrel has LOF If you have save games and can go back in time try it out and see what happens.

Just because you can "see" a target does not mean that the bore of the barrel can. All it means is that someone sees it. Yup it would be nice it the LOF/LOS target line showed what the barrel can see but unfortunately the game does not work that way.

[boekie]

what is probably happening here is that the machingun has a line of fire and the main gun has not.

[Oddball-47]

Isn't it true that the actual visual placement of a unit/vehicle in the later versions of CM is an abstraction within an 8 yard "hotspot" ?

For instance, we sometimes see vehicles which seem to move -through- a tree trunk or -through- another vehicle in the same hotspot.

I suppose one could then profer the idea that while the Russian tank

appears to have an LOS to the German tank that perhaps in actuality

said LOS is blocked by the game engine abstraction of the tree placement.

However, with the tree by the -German- tank, given their respective widths,

I could perhaps buy into the fact that -some- of the tank is obscured by the tree trunk, but not the entire tank itself.

In any event, I can easily empathise with the perplexity/frustration of the original poster.

Regards, Odd

[A Canadian Cat]

what is probably happening here is that the machingun has a line of fire and the main gun has not.

When that happens the target line should be grey. If the line from a tank is light blue then the main gun has LOF.

[altipueri]

That panther is one cool cat.

[A Canadian Cat]

Isn't it true that the actual visual placement of a unit/vehicle in the later versions of CM is an abstraction within an 8 yard "hotspot" ?

No get that idea out of your head Where the vehicle is is where the vehicle is. Same for every single solider.

For instance, we sometimes see vehicles which seem to move -through- a tree trunk or -through- another vehicle in the same hotspot.

So, that is an abstraction so the whole collision handling / collision avoidance problem does not bog down the path finding / fighting calculations.

[Holman]

Perhaps the commander has LOS when outside the turret but loses it when he drops down to fire the gun?

[76mm]

Perhaps the commander has LOS when outside the turret but loses it when he drops down to fire the gun?

Perhaps, although he never dropped down to fire the gun, he just stayed up in the hatch.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Just because you can "see" a target does not mean that the bore of the barrel can. All it means is that someone sees it. Yup it would be nice it the LOF/LOS target line showed what the barrel can see but unfortunately the game does not work that way.

^^^ This.

.....