kevinkin Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Before I set off down a certain design path, are there any infantry weapons that can bring down a building? I have so with repeated tank and arty fire but infantry breach and flame thrower teams don't seem to have the power. For a destroy objective, is it known how much "damage" = "destroy" in victory point calculations? Maybe you don't have to bring the building completely down. Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I had a game where a lone trooper shot a panzerfaust at troopers hiding in a house and caused it to come tumbling down. It was the coolest thing to see and I was going to FRAP it and make into a video, but never got around to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkin Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 I was thinking more on the lines of wooden structures that could collapse or be partially destroyed. BTW, I have not seen any fire even from a flamethrower into a wooden building. Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethe415 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I have never seen anything other than arty and tank fire bring a building down. I also have not since a building as a destroy objective, AFAIK. Occupy a building, sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I have never seen anything other than arty and tank fire bring a building down. I also have not since a building as a destroy objective, AFAIK. Occupy a building, sure. My panzerfaust that brought down the house was the second battle of the Scottish Corridor campaign iirc. This was pre 3.11/3.0 update. Once again I can't recall with 100% certainty, but the building may have already been damaged. Never seen fire from building and wonder if that's even possible in game turns. I see vechicles burn and smoke, but I'm using mods for that effect. Perhaps its possible for someone to create a flame/smoke/damage mod for buildings... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkin Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 "I also have not since a building as a destroy objective, AFAIK. Occupy a building, sure." If you have shock force, try the battle "Time to go" from the US side. Quick to play. One of my first after a long while away so I started out designing small battles. Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaeger Jonzo Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I still think the building damage needs more work to add to the immersion. Why no buildings on fire or smouldering for a start? I Just fought over a mainly timber dwelling village and it looked totally un-molested and clean, despite numerous HE rounds fired into buildings etc. One wooden house took about 8 rounds of 75mm before a hole finally appeared in the front wall and it still had a pretty tiled roof intact!! Couldn't BFc implement a decal style progressive damage to the buildings? Ie sections of roof or walls collapsing, tiles missing from roofs etc etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I still think the building damage needs more work to add to the immersion. Why no buildings on fire or smouldering for a start? I Just fought over a mainly timber dwelling village and it looked totally un-molested and clean, despite numerous HE rounds fired into buildings etc. One wooden house took about 8 rounds of 75mm before a hole finally appeared in the front wall and it still had a pretty tiled roof intact!! Couldn't BFc implement a decal style progressive damage to the buildings? Ie sections of roof or walls collapsing, tiles missing from roofs etc etc Cause fire on actual terrain is not in yet. As to decals and such, don't know. Would be kinda cool. Then again I'd love a whole revamp of buildings and damage for urban battlegrounds. Umlaut's mod helped a lot, but it'd be nice if there was more stock stuff and varying degrees of half demolished buildings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I still think the building damage needs more work to add to the immersion. Why no buildings on fire or smouldering for a start? I Just fought over a mainly timber dwelling village and it looked totally un-molested and clean, despite numerous HE rounds fired into buildings etc. One wooden house took about 8 rounds of 75mm before a hole finally appeared in the front wall and it still had a pretty tiled roof intact!! Couldn't BFc implement a decal style progressive damage to the buildings? Ie sections of roof or walls collapsing, tiles missing from roofs etc etc Definitely agree, and it wouldn't need so much extra work from BF. Hit decals on buildings would go a long way, and just a few more "damage stages" would make a big difference. Even just changing the threshold for when a building goes from mint condition to slightly damaged would be great. One 105-mm shell landing on a roof should cause visible damage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodlebug Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Wow. The blindingly obvious. Never considered hit decals for buildings before but it's a really cool suggestion and would visually improve things immensely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Wow. The blindingly obvious. Never considered hit decals for buildings before but it's a really cool suggestion and would visually improve things immensely. Actually it probably isn't that simple, what happens when the building gets destroyed? Vehicles never go away so that isn't an issue for hit decals. Buildings however don't behave the same way. I for one wouldn't mind it they did away with the final destroyed view of buildings and just added another severely damaged level with walls still intact. I can create totally rubbled buildings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Infantry demo charges can't drop a building, IIRC. I think I did some testing, and discovered: 1) you can demo charge all 4 walls of a single storey building and leave the roof supported only by the corner pillars. 2) demoing a wall doesn't change the number of 75mm Sherman rounds it takes to drop the building. But I'm pretty sure MANPAT can add to the damage score of a building, and if that brings it past the threshold its displayed damage state will change, even to the point of "rubble". Certainly, I've had tank "Target Light" drop the really puny type of barn: there was no other incoming on the structures in the turn they fell down, even if "most" of the damage had been done previously by HE of various kinds. So I'd expect other rifle-calibre weapons to hurt some kinds of buildings. Equally, I don't expect even .50cal damage gets counted as contributing to the damage state of a large modular building. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Actually it probably isn't that simple, what happens when the building gets destroyed? Will guess: Then the decals disappear? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkin Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 From the standpoint of setting fires ... I believe this was in Squad Leader (COI?) under the right environmental conditions. As for CM, I can a imagine a burning wheat field on a hot/dry day moving toward an all wooden village during high winds. The situation was probably too rare to simulate but it would be cool to watch a few times. Fires from left over battles might be more practical. But how long did they burn for? May not fit into even the CM time scale. Kevin Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 From the standpoint of setting fires ... I believe this was in Squad Leader (COI?) under the right environmental conditions. As for CM, I can a imagine a burning wheat field on a hot/dry day moving toward an all wooden village during high winds. The situation was probably too rare to simulate but it would be cool to watch a few times. Fires from left over battles might be more practical. But how long did they burn for? May not fit into even the CM time scale. Kevin Kevin The problem that was encountered in previous titles, when firey terrain and moving conflagrations were implemented was that far too many battles seemed to revolve around deliberately set fires. We CMists are gamey bastidges, it seems, and attempt to "use" fire more often than is historically plausible. BFC have long been of the opinion that including something that was rarely a factor (which will, in the gamers' hands become the "default" SOP) isn't something they want to do. So we won't get flammable terrain until they've got it sorted out so that it's not the thing that decides all fights where something burnable is on the map. Tricky problem, that, since it involves accounting for behaviour well out of the control of the game makers, such as having a tendency for fights to be on dry ground, with no precipitation and some light winds more often than was the case in-theatre... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Malan2 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Biggest issue with SL CoI etc was fires spread too fast. Fire could spread in wheat fields in minutes it seemed. Rarely if ever in Europe can that happen. I do not recall any accounts of actions in RL where fires in other than a specific building had an effect on the battle other than a little smoke, or a worst a very local obstacle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Biggest issue with SL CoI etc was fires spread too fast. Fire could spread in wheat fields in minutes it seemed. Rarely if ever in Europe can that happen. I do not recall any accounts of actions in RL where fires in other than a specific building had an effect on the battle other than a little smoke, or a worst a very local obstacle Aye, so it's probably the speed of spread that BFC need to make sure they get "right" to allow for realistic representation of conflagration on the battlefield. As well as the chances of ordnance actually starting significant flames in the first place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 From the standpoint of setting fires ... I believe this was in Squad Leader (COI?) under the right environmental conditions. As for CM, I can a imagine a burning wheat field on a hot/dry day moving toward an all wooden village during high winds. The situation was probably too rare to simulate but it would be cool to watch a few times. Fires from left over battles might be more practical. But how long did they burn for? May not fit into even the CM time scale. Kevin Kevin CM:Pyromania. I am not sure we will see CM ever try to incorporate that too much. It just doesn't seem to be a great use of resources to focus on spread of fire and materials. I'd like to see a FT set a building on fire, but having the whole block go up would kind of take away from the actual combat aspect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostRider3/3 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 CM:Pyromania. I am not sure we will see CM ever try to incorporate that too much. It just doesn't seem to be a great use of resources to focus on spread of fire and materials. I'd like to see a FT set a building on fire, but having the whole block go up would kind of take away from the actual combat aspect. I agree.. would really like to see Flame thrower units set buildings alight but limit it to local damage only. and yes you could get really gamey with the first CMBB. But I think it would be great fun to see a Flame thrower tank or a Sdkfz-251/16 set fire to a building. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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