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Turkey and Syria (and ISIS)


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Turkey is dragging its feet on getting involved in the fight vs ISIS. They see Assad as the primary enemy and do not want to do anything to help the Kurds.

It occurred to me that since Turkey is equipped (IIRC) with mostly US equipment, CMSF would be a ripe source for scenarios and campaigns involving Turkey vs Syria and Turkey vs ISIS (or even the vs Kurds).

I think we may already have a Turkish uniform mod. We have Kurd-like UNCON mods. And we will soon have ISIS mods.

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I have seen M113 very close to the dutch ypr we have in game now (NATO module). And I remember seeing turkish YPR with 20mm turret too in other sources.

Saferight has done a turkish camo for the insurgents, might be possible to convert one of the NATO module armies to Turkish, what kind of personal weapons do they use?

By the way some time ago I saw someone here on the forums saying that he regreted the fact that CMSF modules did not include turkey... well, that would have fit too well now, even for BFC.

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You could use maybe the dutch forces for turkey they both have aifv(ypr) , leopard 2a4, and a similar shaped pasgt helmet. For small arms though the turks mainly use G3 and MG3, so while you could swap the dutch MAGs for german MG3's you wont have G3 but i guess it could be something similar to the variety of work Blimey has done.

I have thought of making ypg/peshmerga fighters with mords mixed combtants. But i have to wait and see.

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I think that most of the mods needed exist. (I think I read that someone is doing Turkish camo uniforms?)

I think we just need some Turkish markings on the M1 tanks, and the Dutch YPR’s as they seem similar to what the Turks have. Not sure what other vehicles they use. I don’t the small arms are a big deal. Most have similar performance even if not the correct model/shape.

This could really bring CMSF back to life.

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If you make this mod, I can buy this game (SF)

İt would be good to play with our forces

Sorry for my Turkish accent :-)

One note:

Yes our forces are on the move to the border of Syrian but the decision for action permission will be made by our parliament. And this will not be an exact movement decision, only a permission to government for movement at right time.

Regards

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Somebody speak up if you know different, but after the Americans, the Turks seem to be the most consistently victorious military power in the recorded history of human warfare, ahead of the Mongols (in fact Ain Jalut was the latter's first recorded major defeat).

Pretty much everyone who has fought the Turks has regretted it (the Arab Revolt was a pure function of them being undermanned due to demands of other fronts). They gather to solve problems in a very 'Western' way, while retaining an 'Asiatic' tradition of uncomplaining toughness in the face of hardship.

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Let me try to remind that their last battle, Did you hear Kunu-ri?

or Kumyangjang-ni?

Do you know Korean War?

Please search Korean war and Turkish support on this war

War is mostly technology but without a braveheart , you can't succeed , it's different from the games mate :-)

Regards

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From one side tradition is very important to any army, being it positive or negative in terms of victories (although few wars in history let you put a real victorious side, most of the time it's just convenient to pick a winner because there "needs" to be one).

Tradition of an army anyway trascends the number of victories, as it's more tied to number of wars fought, variety of fronts seen, and age of the armed forces of a given country.

I belive modern turkish army has a very strong tradition, as few Others can say in the world. But on the other hand turkish army has little experience in modern times, as many other armies do miss. Few countries have small units of what we could call veterans thanks to their participaton in peace corps/missions etc. around the world, but even those see little action on most cases.

A good portion of IS fighters have no tradition on their background, I belive very few fought in Iran-Iraq war, which is out of the joungest ones. They have generic or no training, you can see it from their phisical conditioning, which is very casual. Their best fighters are former Iraqi/Syrian/Iran armies, maybe even saudis etc. But despite all of this they have something they truly belive in, and this is by itself a strong argument and incitement to fight and in combat; and many of them have seen armed combat during the last 10 years, maybe are guerrillas, criminals etc. exactly at the same level they like to fight: in a close combat rough battle, with low technology, no real tactical indoctrination, no strategic layers.

It's asymmetrical warfare all again, we thought that the last 50 years teached us about it from Vietnam, to Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel etc. and yet it's still there, and winning (or at least causing a lot of troubles). A kind of fight that is evidently too tied and rooted in something else that strategic and tactical analysis is not sufficient to understand and counter it. Maybe it's time to find out what's asymmetrical warfare is really about, and I would start talking with sociologists.

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From one side tradition is very important to any army, being it positive or negative in terms of victories (although few wars in history let you put a real victorious side, most of the time it's just convenient to pick a winner because there "needs" to be one).

Tradition of an army anyway trascends the number of victories, as it's more tied to number of wars fought, variety of fronts seen, and age of the armed forces of a given country.

I belive modern turkish army has a very strong tradition, as few Others can say in the world. But on the other hand turkish army has little experience in modern times, as many other armies do miss. Few countries have small units of what we could call veterans thanks to their participaton in peace corps/missions etc. around the world, but even those see little action on most cases.

yeah a lot of missions, some likely seeing action, some not.

http://www.tsk.tr/ing/4_international_relations/4_1_contribution_of_turkish_armed_forces_to_peace_support_operations/contribution_of_turkish_armed_forces_to_peace_support_operations.htm

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Ok, so they haven't been at war for 60+ years. Long time...

If that is correct then their officer and NCO cadres are untested. Am not saying they suck, am simply saying that we don't know...

Sixty years is not quite right - Cyprus springs to mind. I say this as historical fact and not to start a political mud slinging exercise about perceived rights and wrongs of what happened.

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All the above points are valid. Am simply noting that the US for example has really applied itself at keeping up combat training since Vietnam. Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan and probably a few other undeclared locations etc. The Turks may have training that keeps them in xnt combat posture. But, one just doesn't know until the balloon goes up.

Am not trying to say anything negative about our Turkish allies. My point is simply that making assumptions or having hubris about capabilities has tended to result in historical upsets.

Am glad we're discussing this stuff. Hope we may see some scenarios on this.

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