WynnterGreen Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 The Problem: Finding the Squad a Team has been detached from among other detached units. Currently one of the biggest time wasters for me in Combat Mission [especially in larger games with many detached units] is having to click through detached Teams while reading Chain of Command in the Unit Info Panel in order to identify which Squad the detachment belongs to. This cumbersome procedure is required because there's currently no way to identify 'on the map' which Squad the Team has been detached from. Double clicking an Icon doesn't help, because the lowest level at which this feature functions is the Platoon. [ie, double clicking any Squad or detachment highlights the entire parent Platoon] The problem is compounded with Squad types that can be split into three detachments. Place two split Squads, each with three detachments in fairly close proximity and quite quickly you have unit management, cohesion and C2 problems that can't be remedied by looking at the map alone. Proposed Solution: When you select a Team the Icon of any other Team in the units Squad identifies itself via an 'Icon' change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 +100 definitely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 While I agree that it should be easier to ID the teams of a squad, I personally don't find it too much of a hardship at the moment, since most of the time I don't much care, once they're split, which squad a team came from. I'm more interested whether they're an assault team or a fire team, a scout team or a MANPAT team. The Germans get a specific icon for their schreck teams split off from the squad; it'd be good if the Allies did too. I can see the problem being more pressing in Red Thunder, since the component teams of a squad should stay close together to avoid penalties, I gather. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyberg Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 + and - on the keypad is not good enough? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WynnterGreen Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 + and - on the keypad is not good enough? Cycling through units isn't the issue. It's having to constantly peer at the Chain of Command panel to identify which Teams make up each Squad that's the problem. It's about maintaining unit cohesion and C2. Currently there's a lack of any visual clue on the map to connect each element. When you have a lot of split units in a given area and no easy way to identify which unit they belong to it becomes a micro management pain in the ass. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellas Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 A superb idea. I aways split everything all the time. I was already dreaming about one, two, and three small black points above the icons of the selected unit's belonging squad's units, to be able to identify the corresponding teams of the #1 (*), #2 (**), #3(***) squad but your suggestion has the information reduced to the currently selected team's squad and is ergonomically and visually way superior. Super. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 +1. This would help speed up gameplay - especially as scenarios get larger. people have suggested using colored frames around the icon etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Oh cool, coloured frames would do the trick! In need of this feature too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexUK Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I was thinking a different shade of the colour could be used on all associated teams when one team is selected. Not so sure about icon form change to diamond. Also I think others have mentioned, but icon to reflect AT element of split squad for allies, icon change to reflect when a gun team has abandoned the gun (as with vehicles). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 If all the icons for the teams of a squad changed to a certain color or colored outline when a team was selected, that would instantly ID them as belonging to the same squad. A different shaped icon would be more confusing. Fortunately, the command lines does make identifying all the sub units under an HQ easy when you select the HQ. But currently, time is definitely wasted when trying to ID teams of a squad. Esp needed when acquiring/sharing ammo etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WynnterGreen Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Yep..... any of the suggestions, colour change instead of shape, or a distinct border as an identifier for teams would work for me. Getting an on map representation is what's important. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Good ideas here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Yes, I agree...When selecting the Fireteam then the Squad that it belongs to should have it's Icon Border Outlined in same Orange Color ( and maybe having that Outline pulse alittle ) would be a good representation. As Seen on TV... Joe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhmorneau Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I wholly agree with the OP. Another solution would be to add squad # on the right hand side of the icons : Thus, for example, all teams from squad 1 would have in common an icon with one dot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 How about a color to identify all the teams of a squad, and the 1, 2 and 3 dots to represent teams A, B and C. I am all for anything that speeds up gameplay. Recognition of which unit is where (and knowing which team was A, B or C would provide some idea of what each team is equipped with) would be helpful. (And of course the other big time savers would be selectable waypoints and lines, and an adjacent ACQUIRE ability rather than having to embark and disembark etc.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Please, not colour. The colour palette for the UI presents mostly suboptimal options for those with sub-par colour vision. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexUK Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Please, not colour. The colour palette for the UI presents mostly suboptimal options for those with sub-par colour vision. Yes, that is a drawback.... One other bump that is icon related is for the icon of a wiped out unit to flash as with normal casualties - at the moment it just disappears. Also good to have enemy casualties flash (maybe level of difficulty related?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 There must be a way around color disabilities... otherwise how do you even play the game as is? We're talking about a play aid for the majority of players. Those with color issues would be no worse off then they are now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 When the point of the change is to make something more slick and easy to see, having it not be that for the 10% or so of the demographic who have colour deficiencies, when using a shape or dots instead is precisely as much work would be pretty silly. With the current colour usage, sometimes it's a struggle. It's nigh impossible to tell whether a movement leg is Fast, Quick or Reverse. Sometimes it's very difficult to see the ochre "Target" order line against a dirt background. And that's just me with my deficient colour vision. Total red-green coulourblindness must be even harder. Sure, it's a first world problem. But why use a 90% solution when the 100% solution is just as easy and effective? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 point taken... I am happy to let you lead the "nag BFC" campaign on this one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Even for those who do not suffer from color blindness, the idea of colored borders runs into a problem. There are only so many distinctly different hues in the spectrum. In a large game with many squads, you quickly run out. I like the OP's idea of a frame that changes shape only when a member of that squad is selected and then reverts when no members are selected. It's easily recognizable and there are no problems with color blindness. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I like the OP's idea of a frame that changes shape only when a member of that squad is selected and then reverts when no members are selected. I like that idea too. Even though it will make icons mods more work. I run into this every now and then too, especially after a chaotic fire fight and I want to get the platoon back in good order there is a lot of clicking and memory work to get the split squads back into some kind of formation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Michael: Ignoring the color blindness issue for a sec. We're not talking about colored borders for EVERY team on the map. Just for the 2 or 3 teams from a particular squad so the squad can be located and reintegrated efficiently re ammo resupply etc. Selecting a platoon HQ with command lines on, efficiently identifies all the squads of that HQ, so that's not a problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Another way of approaching it might be to have the command lines thing (I've not seen it yet in action, myself) just show the tree "up from" a selected team, so you'll see the three teams of the squad linked to the PltHQ, but not the teams from the other squads of the same Plt. Might be a bit cumbersome if they're very widely separated... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Michael: Ignoring the color blindness issue for a sec. We're not talking about colored borders for EVERY team on the map. Just for the 2 or 3 teams from a particular squad so the squad can be located and reintegrated efficiently re ammo resupply etc. Okay, thanks for the clarification. It seemed like people were asking for all teams of each squad have permanently colored borders. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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