Why No Tank Riders?

[weapon2010]

I don't get that?Its a major game improvement, why not include it?

[weapon2010]

BF, Im normaly on board with everything you guys do.But I must disagree with leaving major game improvements out . Just because something is rare in a particular theater of war, does not mean it should not be included,BF should not pick and choose major gameplay features to leave out because they think it was rare, if it was too much work to add tank riders, then charge more for the upgrade, don't leave "cool features" out, that's going backwards, keep adding "cool stuff" and keep all the games equal in features, this is only going to confuse and frustrate players, we now currently have 2 different versions of the 3.0 upgrade.I don't get it.

[Waycool]

Was hoping for this capability and flamethrowers with patch. Possible down road as free update for 3.0 users?

[weapon2010]

if that's the case then im fine with that, just let us know, im not fine with no tank riders or "any feature" that is in one version and not in another

[Waycool]

Agree weapon I am not sure if it's possible just chiming in, I would be ok with that as well. When patch came out I assumed all the feature sets from CMRT would be in CMBN/CMFI 3.0.

[MikeyD]

Was hoping for this capability and flamethrowers with patch.

I think you've now got the capability, but no actual flame thrower units just yet. All good things come to those who wait.

I haven't checked tank riders in CMBN but tank riding was not part of western tactical doctrine. Specialist troops were not assigned to drive into the teeth of the enemy clinging to the sides of their Shermans like Russians did. We are still in Normandy, after all. By the same token there's no FO air control on Eastern Front but there is in Normandy. The two theaters are different.

For those who haven't played CMRT hit decals are going to be something of a revelation.

[Waycool]

Roger on the re: tank riders doctrinal difference east versus west front. Was thinking with larger map capability of 3.0 tank borne infantry would be useful. Allied forces on west front did use them as an example Le Mesnil-Patry comes to mind, not successfully in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Le_Mesnil-Patry

I think you've now got the capability, but no actual flame thrower units just yet. All good things come to those who wait.

I haven't checked tank riders in CMBN but tank riding was not part of western tactical doctrine.

For those who haven't played CMRT hit decals are going to be something of a revelation.

[Childress]

I haven't checked tank riders in CMBN but tank riding was not part of western tactical doctrine. Specialist troops were not assigned to drive into the teeth of the enemy clinging to the sides of their Shermans like Russians did. We are still in Normandy, after all.

Nor was it German doctrine on the East Front by 1944. Then why are there German tank riders in RT?

Because tanks were extensively used as battlefield taxis? That is true of both theaters. On all sides.

Steve had mentioned further breakdowns of Italian squads for 3.0 in the interests of flexibility like the Russians. And presumably so they can be accommodated by Italian tankettes as riders. I take it this isn't happening.

By the same token there's no FO air control on Eastern Front but there is in Normandy. The two theaters are different.

Either a specialized FO can call in air strikes on the CM battlefield or he can't. I suspect RT got it right.

Why can't these upgrades be 100% standardized to the latest release?

[Hister]

Well, for me the biggest thing missing is AI triggers being applied to at least some stock scenarios and campaigns. Hope these will be available at some point.

[ratdeath]

I think they have to adjust every vehicle 3D model (allied mostly), so it's just not a simple switch to allow tank riders. I hope they will sell upgraded vehicle packages for Normandy and Fortress Italy that also includes some flamethrower units.

[Fizou]

I miss tankriders for BN and FI too. I hope this will be added at a later stage. I'll pay for it.

[JonS]

Just because something is rare in a particular theater of war, does not mean it should not be included

You have that completely backwards. Try a forum search for "Bovine meat sponge", and ponder what you find.

BF should not pick and choose major gameplay features to leave out

You know, I honestly can't think of anyone besides BFC that's better placed to make that call about their games. Can you?

[A Canadian Cat]

I miss tankriders for BN and FI too. I hope this will be added at a later stage. I'll pay for it.

Same here, I was disappointed when I heard about the no tank riders decision.

[weapon2010]

Jon s

Its not complicated,

Did Americans and Germans ride on Tanks in Normandy?Yes

And is aa guns shooting at planes a critical part of a cm battle?no, but its in,and Im glad it is.

[Toblakai]

And is aa guns shooting at planes a critical part of a cm battle? no, but its in

Only if it would be just a graphical feature ... but it isn't

[JonS]

When you have no skin in the game, nothing is complicated.

[Macisle]

Same here, I was disappointed when I heard about the no tank riders decision.

Same here on tank riders. I am also disappointed about not getting flamethrowers. I thought that the upgrade would make the feature sets between CMRT and CMBN equal.

Having said that, I understand that they must have hit a point where it became clear that there was just too much work involved for one upgrade package. So, I'm disappointed in the sense of wanting those features for the CMBN family and having to wait--not in the sense of feeling that the upgrade isn't worth it. It is.

I just hope that the features will be offered at some point. I'm fine paying for them in whatever format they come in (2nd upgrade package, battle pack, etc.).

[Childress]

Despite the kvetching it has to be recognized that it was more important depicting tank riding in CMRT due to the presence of Soviet desant practices. The Russians were spendy with their human material. One does, however, read of scattered German examples, notably in the Bulge. Going by photos and anecdotes the Allied employment of tanks as taxis was common in the mountainous Italian theater.

[A Canadian Cat]

I'm disappointed in the sense of wanting those features for the CMBN family and having to wait--not in the sense of feeling that the upgrade isn't worth it. It is.

My bold - to agree!

I just hope that the features will be offered at some point. I'm fine paying for them in whatever format they come in (2nd upgrade package, battle pack, etc.).

That would be great.

Despite the kvetching it has to be recognized that it was more important depicting tank riding in CMRT due to the presence of Soviet desant practices.

Yep, totally true. I was just hoping it would be there for the other nationalities not because I plan to have my British and American troops ride into battle but for larger maps some impromptu taxing would be nice. Nice not necessary but I like nice

[weapon2010]

JonS,

"Bovine meat sponge"

"you have no skin"

Your scaring me,please stop.

[A Canadian Cat]

I am also disappointed about not getting flamethrowers.

Yeah, I have no real inside knowledge but I suspect that ran right into "upgrades don't add units just game play features" policy. I have a game going right now in CMFI where a building is being pounded by a SP 105 gun - there are little frames burning on the second story right now. Just like in CMRT where you get those small fires on the ground after a big explosion. I think that is a clue.

[Macisle]

Yeah, I have no real inside knowledge but I suspect that ran right into "upgrades don't add units just game play features" policy. I have a game going right now in CMFI where a building is being pounded by a SP 105 gun - there are little frames burning on the second story right now. Just like in CMRT where you get those small fires on the ground after a big explosion. I think that is a clue.

Doh! -Didn't think about that. They'd have to actually add flame units to BN/FI and that breaks policy on upgrade content.

Here's hoping that the underlying flame code is there now, and all they have to do is give us flame units in upcoming content expansions.

[Michael Emrys]

They'd have to actually add flame units to BN/FI and that breaks policy on upgrade content.

Finally! Y'know, MikeyD posted this way back in post #6 in this thread:

I think you've now got the capability, but no actual flame thrower units just yet.

People somehow didn't seem to notice that. Furthermore, there has been previous discussion along the same lines previously. Not inconceivable that someone might have missed the earlier discussion, but what's the excuse for ignoring MD in this thread?

Michael

[Silverswift]

I guess every vintage video of troops from all sides riding on tanks was completely fabricated, LoL. Not even including quotes from infantry vets saying, "We saw the Tiger, and before we could jump off, etc." It may not have been doctrine, but as a prior service Ranger, I know at the platoon or squad level, a ride to anywhere would be greatly appreciated. I love BF, bought EVERY CM game/upgrade from CM1 on (except Afghanistan). But I'm definitely not impressed with the 3.0 upgrade release decisions, and very disappointed. And then to pay for the upgrade twice for FI AND BN? Not to mention, I'm sure flame throwers and tank riders will be another upgrade we'll have to pay for down the line. It's a rip that I can't support or defend. (Maybe "defend" is a little harsh) but I think I'll be passing this upgrade up until there's more content.

[MikeyD]

You want tank riding because you want it, forget its historically inaccurate for the theater and downright suicidal in close country during gameplay. Its one of those things where after you've done it three times and lost two squads in the process the novelty wears off, so its no big deal not having it. If BFC had made a "12 miles behind the lines" simulator then maybe tank riding would be appropriate. After BFC crosses the Rhine perhaps American infantry riding on tanks will make an appearance. Most picts you see of American tank riders are from the 1945 timeframe.