Bootie Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Hi guys... Ithikial and myself Bootie are playing through the CMRT scenario The Passage and posting our respective thoughts on our YouTube channels. Im not very good at CM but what I lack in skill I make up for with enthusiasm. Below is the link to the first video... its basically an excercise in how not to play this scenario. Also check out Ithikials view from the other side. Thanks for reading. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Good luck to ya' Bootie. I played the Russian in this one H2H and was slaughtered. So badly that I surrendered very early because I had pretty much run out of tanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootie Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 Thats a pretty foreboding warning... LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Ha enthusiasm is all that really matters. And don't be intimidated. Those Russian tanks are deadly. Just don't let him get you in a sniping fight. You have the numbers, make em count. It is a tough scenario for either side depending on how you play it. This is the Red army brother, stomp the nazis forces under your heel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Thats a pretty foreboding warning... LOL It was intended to be. I can't think of a CM scenario where I was so quickly shredded. (but I don't want to publish any spoilers) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Losing as the Russians is not a good thing. I think the scenario favors them. They have the terrain advantage and the ability to get into flanking shot positions. They have the armor advantage. So Maybe the Germans have a infanty advantage, but in a tank duel scenario, that does not mean much. I sure like to hear someone explain how this scenario does not favor the Russians 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootie Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 I played this blind and did not know what the Axis forces had... my opening moves set me up for a disastrous fail but yes on the face of it and with hindsight the Russians should win this. Funny old thing war is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I've been watching reports of H2H games of this scenario with interest, and this is the first time I've heard of the Russians loosing... GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithikial_AU Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Been purposefully keeping away from Bootie's videos. You can see from my deployment video I'm a little 'biting fingernails' nervous going into the fight as I was fearful I had too far to travel to get to the passage itself so the Soviets would be set up to take pot shots as I moved into position. Didn't call part one of my videos "Ave Maria" for nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I've been watching reports of H2H games of this scenario with interest, and this is the first time I've heard of the Russians loosing... GaJ Ditto. with padding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Well, after playing it h2h, I did run it as the Germans vs the AI and it made for a pretty good battle. I won as the Germans playing it that way, but i also knew what I was facing and what I needed to do with my Armor, so I think this battle is designed well to play as a German vs the AI for a first run. But It is not a balenced situation for H2h. But as is pointed out. Given the decisions, skill levels and so forth of players. There is always a chance someone can win from the challenging side. So whoever that was playing as the Germans, they can feel real good about the win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Well, as a Russian H2H loser, I've only played it once and from the Russian side. Now that I have that learning experience under my belt, I feel that I could do much better as the Russians a second time around. Of course that is partially because I'd know what's coming. I *thought* I had a pretty good plan, but my armor was pretty much mowed down by long range fire from German armor. Almost every hit destroyed a tank -fireballs and smoke plumes everywhere. Not a pretty sight. This was with my most frequent opponent and we seem to be pretty evenly matched in skill. Not sure what happened then if everyone says that the Russians *should* win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 This was with my most frequent opponent and we seem to be pretty evenly matched in skill. Not sure what happened then if everyone says that the Russians *should* win. What you learned is that the German tanks are more than a match against the Soviet tanks at range. The German tanks spot better hit more often at long range. They also have a higher rate of fire which makes hitting more often even more powerful. So, if the Soviet player tries to go toe to toe with the Germans way across the map they will likely come up short. However if the Soviets use the terrain to shelter - even partially - their tanks and move out quickly to get into better positions with some cover and closer engagement range the advantage is reduced and then the Soviets tankers can get some head way. ***** Spoiler Alert **** What I did was dedicate a small number of tanks to move off slightly to the left to get long range eyes on the German route to the objectives. There is a little bit of cover there (hull down on the embankment or is it a rail line I forget). And a few on the high ground they started on. The rest of the force hauled ass towards the objective. I pretty much sacrificed those tanks that covered the movement but they got some rounds off and even hit something I think. It was enough of a distraction (even though they were all brewed up) that the main force was able to reach the occupy objective and get good cover and hull down locations along the rail line and in the trees. Then when the German force, tired of shooting my distraction forces, tried to move on the objective they found they were facing lots of guns at much closer ranges. I lost a few more tanks but I had enough in the right places that I won out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 ***** Spoiler Alert **** What I did was dedicate a small number of tanks to move off slightly to the left to get long range eyes on the German route to the objectives. There is a little bit of cover there (hull down on the embankment or is it a rail line I forget). And a few on the high ground they started on. The rest of the force hauled ass towards the objective. I pretty much sacrificed those tanks that covered the movement but they got some rounds off and even hit something I think. It was enough of a distraction (even though they were all brewed up) that the main force was able to reach the occupy objective and get good cover and hull down locations along the rail line and in the trees. Then when the German force, tired of shooting my distraction forces, tried to move on the objective they found they were facing lots of guns at much closer ranges. I lost a few more tanks but I had enough in the right places that I won out. Wow. This is almost EXACTLY what I did and I was massacred. All of the overwatch tanks were taken out and as soon as the "assault force" got to that small treeline at the right center they were also destroyed within 3 minutes, most without getting of a shot. They hauled ass to get to that spot quickly too. Maybe it just wasn't my day. :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 In MY H2H match. I tried just that with the Germans. I went for a long range engagement and hoped that would help my armor. I tried to locate in hulled down positions and to have all 8 tanks in a position to particibate in any fire fight that might occur. My opponent did a good job of moving up on his right flank and setting his armor in the woods and small village on his portion of the map in that area. That was where my battle began, with the extra armor he had I was not getting in more hits and I was finding his rounds finding and hitting targets at range were doing just fine. Plus many of my rounds were bouncing off armor where as few of his deflected. Needless to say. I think I lost 3 tanks to 2 in the first minute or two, then 2 more before I coulnd disengage totally to maybe one of his. So now I had 3 tanks vs 9 tanks after have lost 5 to 3 in the first part of the battle. So I am not sure I would preach that Long range German fire is going to win the battle for anyone. It sure would not be my approach to it again. But I have not sat down and tested to see if there is a perfect range that the panzer's might have the advantage that shows up well in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Interesting, @Ultradave and @slysniper, that our experiences were very different. My long range dueling T34s - all five of them were KO'ed without destroying a single enemy tank. I am pretty sure I hit one but that's about it. Once I was on the occupy objective and up on the rail line near the touch objective to the left I just picked my opponent's tanks off as they moved. I did loose one more tank and some infantry but that is all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootie Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 I think your opening move as the Russians pretty much decides this battle. One wrong choice and its hard to extract yourself from it and you run the gauntlet of hopefully making the correct choice in relation to your opponents opening move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I think the German in my case held back a bit and was able to pick off my tanks from the high ground on the German side. Every time one of mine moved - BOOM. I don't think mine even got many shots off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnsy Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If you want to see it played a different way as the Russians then watch my 5 part video AAR on this here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Interesting, @Ultradave and @slysniper, that our experiences were very different. My long range dueling T34s - all five of them were KO'ed without destroying a single enemy tank. I am pretty sure I hit one but that's about it. Once I was on the occupy objective and up on the rail line near the touch objective to the left I just picked my opponent's tanks off as they moved. I did loose one more tank and some infantry but that is all. And my experience was the complete opposite again. I lost 1 T34 and that was down to the right, crossing the ditch. Of my "overwatch" T34's, 1 was immobilised ( didn't realise those grassless patches were mud, doh ! ) and another got immobilised near the railway culvert from a point-blank duel with an enemy PzIV. I found that at range, the German 75mm often failed to penetrate, whereas the PzIV could not take a Russian 85mm hit and live. Just goes to show. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 ok, ok I need to re-qualify my statements.( which were wrong) I just did some quick testing but found a very interesting thing out. As for the units, it is a real toss up as to who has the advantage at range. I did a test battle at 1300 meters with all the armed units in the game, just 4 times to see what would happen. There is (15) T34-85 against (8) Pv4 with some misc. other equip. The results game 1 kills: 8 German tanks to 1 Russian tank in 2 minutes game 2 kills: 4 German tanks to 13 Russian tank in 4 minutes game 3 kills: 4 German tanks to 15 Russian tank in 3.5 minutes game 4 kills: 8 German tanks to 8 Russian tank in 3 minutes So in just 4 test I had the battle swing both ways twice in just a few minutes I selected 1300 in that it was the distance approx. of the duel in the game I played. So actually, it is a great game as to the match up of units. I still think the Russians have the Terrain advantage, plus with more units it also can be a advantage as to getting flanking positions. but it can also be a disadvantage if you cannot coordinate enough units at once into proper firing position. So this battle is likely one of the more balanced scenarios out there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootie Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Cool test... thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Doesn't the luck factor often play a predominant role in armor-centric engagements? You can increase your chances with smart placement and maneuvering but the smaller the battle- and The Passage is not huge- the greater the unpredictability. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Doesn't the luck factor often play a predominant role in armor-centric engagements? You can increase your chances with smart placement and maneuvering but the smaller the battle- and The Passage is not huge- the greater the unpredictability. Yes, to all the above. But I like to run these test often to see what is good engagement ranges for tank to tank duels. It is typical to see a side consistantly take the advantage and win. Normally the losses vary alot, but swinging a victory is seldom unless there is some equality. To get such drastic different results in such a few games, that only comes when there is some equility in the match up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Give me equility or give me death! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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