Is the Sn-42 body armour in the game ?

[Bulletpoint]

According to Wikipedia (the world's most trustworthy source of information):

The Soviet Armed Forces used several types of body armor, including the SN-42 ("Stalnoi Nagrudnik" is Russian for "steel breastplate", and the number denotes the design year). All were tested, but only the SN-42 was put in production. It consisted of two pressed steel plates that protected the front torso and groin. The plates were 2 mm thick and weighed 3.5 kg (7.7 lb). This armor was supplied to SHISBr (assault engineers) and to Tankodesantniki (infantry that rode on tanks) of some tank brigades. The SN armor protected wearers from 9 mm bullets fired by an MP 40 at around 100 meters, which made it useful in urban battles such as the Battle of Stalingrad. However, the SN's weight made it impractical for infantry in the open.

Is this armour in the game ? (haven't bought RT yet, waiting for my new computer to run it well)

[Kauz]

According to Wikipedia (the world's most trustworthy source of information):

Is this armour in the game ? (haven't bought RT yet, waiting for my new computer to run it well)

I guess not....but the soviets do not need an additional armor....if you take a look on russian veterans it seems that they get decorated with a medal for every day they survived ...^^

[John Kettler]

Bulletpoint,

Though I didn't know the equipments designators, I did ask that the body armor be included and provided photographic proof of its use. If I had to guess, maybe we'll get it in whatever game covers the Battle of Berlin.

Regards,

John Kettler

[c3k]

Protects against 9mm at 100 yds? Heck, a good pair of canvas pants will do that!

[Kauz]

Protects against 9mm at 100 yds? Heck, a good pair of canvas pants will do that!

If you shoot a 9mm Parabellum round from a P38 pistol it has about 533 Joule at the beginning.

@100 meters it has 270 Joule and may still be able to penetrate roughly:

1 mm steel; 2mm iron, 28mm concrete (not reinforced i guess), 72mm brick (wall), 66mm sandbag (dry!), 138mm pinewood (dry!), 138mm soil/earth (natural evolved)

To be able to penetrate the skin you only need about 1-3 Joule ...to be able to penetrate your skull about 30 Joule ....to be deadly a shrapnell needs about 80 Joule...

Despite the fact the round is weak and only has about the half Energy left...it still has penetration power and kill/damage power.

[Oddball_E8]

If you shoot a 9mm Parabellum round from a P38 pistol it has about 533 Joule at the beginning.

@100 meters it has 270 Joule and may still be able to penetrate roughly:

1 mm steel; 2mm iron, 28mm concrete (not reinforced i guess), 72mm brick (wall), 66mm sandbag (dry!), 138mm pinewood (dry!), 138mm soil/earth (natural evolved)

To be able to penetrate the skin you only need about 1-3 Joule ...to be able to penetrate your skull about 30 Joule ....to be deadly a shrapnell needs about 80 Joule...

Despite the fact the round is weak and only has about the half Energy left...it still has penetration power and kill/damage power.

It appears someone can't take a joke...

[Kauz]

It appears...that someone can´t handle additional information...

[freeman2344]

If you shoot a 9mm Parabellum round from a P38 pistol it has about 533 Joule at the beginning.

@100 meters it has 270 Joule and may still be able to penetrate roughly:

1 mm steel; 2mm iron, 28mm concrete (not reinforced i guess), 72mm brick (wall), 66mm sandbag (dry!), 138mm pinewood (dry!), 138mm soil/earth (natural evolved)

To be able to penetrate the skin you only need about 1-3 Joule ...to be able to penetrate your skull about 30 Joule ....to be deadly a shrapnell needs about 80 Joule...

Despite the fact the round is weak and only has about the half Energy left...it still has penetration power and kill/damage power.

Out of curiosity: is there a source for these numbers or did you calculate that yourself?

[Fernando]

....if you take a look on russian veterans it seems that they get decorated with a medal for every day they survived ...^^

"It takes a brave man to be a coward in the Red Army"

[Bulletpoint]

Maybe tangential to the topic, but, isn't there something about slower-moving projectiles actually causing more damage to the human body due to more energy being deposited in the tissue rather than staying with the bullet as it passes straight through?

[Apocal]

Maybe tangential to the topic, but, isn't there something about slower-moving projectiles actually causing more damage to the human body due to more energy being deposited in the tissue rather than staying with the bullet as it passes straight through?

That isn't really how it works, most damage is done by permanent tissue damage caused by the round (or fragments of the round) passing through your body, perforating organs, major cardiovascular structures, central nervous system, etc.

[Bulletpoint]

That isn't really how it works, most damage is done by permanent tissue damage caused by the round (or fragments of the round) passing through your body, perforating organs, major cardiovascular structures, central nervous system, etc.

I wish I had a source for it, just remember watching something about a madman who had brought an AK-47 to work and started gunning down his colleagues. One was a middle-aged woman hit by a burst at point blank range.

She survived, and apparently a reason for that was that the pointy, high-velocity rounds had poked neat holes straight through, where a slower round would have caused more tissue damage.

Not arguing either way, just thought it was interesting at the time.

[Apocal]

I wish I had a source for it, just remember watching something about a madman who had brought an AK-47 to work and started gunning down his colleagues. One was a middle-aged woman hit by a burst at point blank range.

She survived, and apparently a reason for that was that the pointy, high-velocity rounds had poked neat holes straight through, where a slower round would have caused more tissue damage.

Not arguing either way, just thought it was interesting at the time.

Yeah, rounds have to pass through vital areas to actually deal mortal wounds, typically. At least the usual calibers; obviously high caliber stuff like 12.7mm, 14.5mm and 20mm has serious destructive power wherever it hits.

[Kauz]

Out of curiosity: is there a source for these numbers or did you calculate that yourself?

Some have sources some are deduced by calcutating from other sources.

Depends on....for example the skin and the shrapnell is taken from "Beat P. Kneubuehl"

[c3k]

US Civil War weapons were devastating due to their mass and low velocity. They were too slow to sterilize themselves in flight, as modern rounds do. No jacket, just soft lead, coupled with their velocity caused bones which were hit to just shatter along their whole length. Modern medicine would be hard pressed to save a limb with that type of injury, let alone a thousand in a day.

Modern rounds are so fast that the energy transfer to the bone snaps it at the point of impact rather than splintering and shattering it along its whole length.

Modern bullets, as bad as they are, produce less catastrophic injuries than older ones. Geneva and Hague agreements.

[Kauz]

Maybe tangential to the topic, but, isn't there something about slower-moving projectiles actually causing more damage to the human body due to more energy being deposited in the tissue rather than staying with the bullet as it passes straight through?

Yes and no...

The damage of slower flying projectiles is mainly caused by the cross-sectional area of the bullet. (if they have simple structure and a full metal jacket ...not a expanding bullet)

For example i once read that 9mm Parabellum pistol rounds have a "man-stopping" probability of 50% (whatever that means).

But the 0.45 ACP pistol round (nearly same kinetic energy like 9mm Para) has a 75% "man stopping" probability....

now compare the cross sectional area of the rounds then you find that it is for sure caused by this.

For high velocity bullets Minimum 600 meter/sec, more probable at over 700 meter/sec...you may find the so called cavitation effect.

This effect will appear after some distance in a water including medium (like our body) and will cause an "explosion" behind the bullet.

Because of the high velocity of the bullet, the behind the bullet developing vaccuum can not be refilled by surrounding water instantly (because of its inertia).

Then the behind and surrounding water will do a phase-transition into gas-form to fill up this evacuated volume with gas.

This rapid building gas will for real cause an explosion and do the damage to your tissue ....it will cause the damage/internal bleeding and the hurt/shock...

[mjkerner]

My take-away from all this is that I don't want to be hit by a bullet. Check.

[womble]

Fatter bullets are generally slower. Wider wound channels of the same depth will cause more trauma. Fatter bullets decelerate in the target faster, so their wound channel "per Joule" will be shorter, and less likely to penetrate through-and-through. A narrow bullet that goes all the way through and out the other side won't have dumped all its energy into the target the same way as a fat one that doesn't exit, but it might have started with a lot more: .30-06 or .45ACP? Your choice.

But a fat, fast bullet will do the most damage. Ma Deuce has 10x the muzzle energy of .50 Action Express, and while you wouldn't want to get in the way of either, if it was an either-or choice, you'd pick the pistol round. There's no inherent advantage in terminal ballistics to a slow round; it's just the fat, heavy bullets are slower than the faster, thinner ones, and sometimes they're better at stopping your man.

[Nidan1]

My take-away from all this is that I don't want to be hit by a bullet. Check.

Don't worry, no one ever dies "it's just a fleshwound"

[LukeFF]

They were too slow to sterilize themselves in flight, as modern rounds do.

So, they didn't cause a clean hit?

[Michael Emrys]

So, they didn't cause a clean hit?

I've read that most of the post-wounding infections were caused by bits of clothing and dirt on the skin that got carried into the wound by the bullet. Which is why thorough cleaning of the wound was a such vital part of medical care. It's also why putting on a clean uniform before going into battle whenever it could be done was a good practice.

Michael

[LukeFF]

I've read that most of the post-wounding infections were caused by bits of clothing and dirt on the skin that got carried into the wound by the bullet. Which is why thorough cleaning of the wound was a such vital part of medical care. It's also why putting on a clean uniform before going into battle whenever it could be done was a good practice.

Michael

And you totally missed the joke.

[Michael Emrys]

And you totally missed the joke.

No I didn't. I just used it as an opportunity to increase my post count.

Michael

[LukeFF]

No I didn't. I just used it as an opportunity to increase my post count.

Never mind that I already knew all of what you posted, given that I was a medic in the military.

[Michael Emrys]

And never mind that your "joke" really wasn't funny.

Michael