womble Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Guess: Wego is frozen RT. So the unit has already a move order and now you change their goal by moving the waypoint. Since time is stopped while you give orders CM can not process this new order immediately. This will be done during the next 'tick' of time. To bridge this gap CM inserts this 1 second pause to be able to set the new course for the unit. Or: There is always a delay when you give a new order. Moving a waypoint is not a new order so you would gain an advantage by constantly moving a waypoint instead of giving new orders. TL;DR: technical reasons or anti-cheat If it was there for either of those reasons you wouldn't be able to cancel it. It appears (and then disappears) often enough that I'm not convinced there's any technical reason it can't just be excised and it achieves none of the things you've posited above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Maybe it was a feature that was just intended to make move-able way points workable for RT. If there wasn't a 1 second pause then presumably in RT your guys would be chasing about the place as you drag the way point into place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The issue is the importance of making a very complex game as easy as possible to play so that one isn't fighting the UI while at the same time trying to execute complex tactics. This challenge grows exponentially as the size of scenarios increase. A few seconds wasted here and there multiplied by several dozen units over a hundred turns or more adds up to hours wasted in frustration. Other features that could be simplified and that would save a lot of time: The BIG three: Selectable waypoints/lines that would instantly enable one to select the unit (as with CM1) Ability to acquire from adjacent vehicles (within reason and with time penalty of course) rather than currently having to 1) split into a team, 2) embark, 3) acquire, 4) disembark, 5) join with the rest of the squad... (Also, ability to select how much ammo in 100 round increments. Currently, sometimes the min is 1,000.) One click 180 degree arcs (as with CM1). In the larger map maneuver games that I hope are coming in future CM2 releases, it will be increasingly important to have vehicle turrets facing in certain directions during movement. I already use 180 degree arcs most of the time, and it's a PITA to make them using the current system. Other features: The one second issue per this thread Color coding so one can instantly see all teams of a squad Ability to see the main campaign briefing during the missions of a campaign 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I have never found the 1 sec delay any real problem. I think it may be something that has to be there for whatever reason to get movable waypoints since that is when I believe it first appeared. You can alway get rid of it by hitting small pause command if you think 1 sec makes that much of a difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 See of it as the old cmx1 command delays 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Hi Vinnart. In case you missed it: "A few seconds wasted here and there multiplied by several dozen units over a hundred turns or more adds up to hours wasted in frustration." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Honestly I find 1 sec deal very trivial, but that’s me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Honestly I find 1 sec deal very trivial, but that’s me. Did you read the thread? If you did, are you ignoring the other things that this affects? Take this example. It's from mission 3 of the campaign Road to Nijmegen. I'm not making it up. There's a long straight road. You can plot a full minute of "Fast" and not go whizzing out into the gun sights of any enemy. Quite the drag strip. You have a lot of vehicles to shepherd along it, and you can get half a dozen or so moving at once if you give them increasing delays at the start of their movements. So you set all this up, then you realise you want to do some fiddling at the end of their trajectories because you've had a vehicle overtake while plotting its end waypoint (which would be both inconvenient and unrealistic). With the actual vehicles out of sight off screen because they start so far away and you need to close in to see where all the overlapping movement paths get to, so you don't notice that the time delay on your following vehicles have been wiped out. So instead of having a stately procession of fast moving recce vehicles, you get a tangled knot of tanks trying to climb in and out of drainage ditches and over your armoured cars as the various automatically imposed collision-avoidance delays screw with your careful planning. It is emphatically not about the 1s. It's about all the crap that can derive from the interface doing things you did not ask it to do. It's not even a misclick. It's just rubbish interface work. In this case compounded by the TacAI. We're already having to micromanage what would be second nature for the units driving in column. This just makes it another bit more involved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Ok I did a test and see what you are getting at. If you give a bunch of waypoints with say 15 sec delay to start the move you can move all the waypoints EXCEPT the first one, which is the only one that will reset it to 1 sec. If you move any others it does not reset it, and keeps the original delay you set. If you set delays on waypoints in the middle of the chain, and move them it does not reset it either. The work around for this will be to set a very short move as the first waypoint that you will not likely move after the chain and delay are set. Example set 15 sec delay, and then a 1m move, then the rest of the chain setting delays where ever, and moving the waypoints. As long as you do not move the very fist 1m waypoint it looks like it will not reset to 1 sec. Again I think the 1 sec thing must have been needed for a reason unknown to us. Until they come up with a way to change it try the above solution as it seems to work for this reset problem. Just remember to give this short first waypoint and don’t move it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Ok I did a test and see what you are getting at. If you give a bunch of waypoints with say 15 sec delay to start the move you can move all the waypoints EXCEPT the first one, which is the only one that will reset it to 1 sec. If you move any others it does not reset it, and keeps the original delay you set. If you set delays on waypoints in the middle of the chain, and move them it does not reset it either. The work around for this will be to set a very short move as the first waypoint that you will not likely move after the chain and delay are set. Example set 15 sec delay, and then a 1m move, then the rest of the chain setting delays where ever, and moving the waypoints. As long as you do not move the very fist 1m waypoint it looks like it will not reset to 1 sec. Again I think the 1 sec thing must have been needed for a reason unknown to us. Until they come up with a way to change it try the above solution as it seems to work for this reset problem. Just remember to give this short first waypoint and don’t move it. Good find, Vin! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Only...how do you set a one meter move? The smallest I have seen are not much less than 8 meters as measured by the LOS gauge. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Ok I did a test and see what you are getting at. If you give a bunch of waypoints with say 15 sec delay to start the move you can move all the waypoints EXCEPT the first one, which is the only one that will reset it to 1 sec. If you move any others it does not reset it, and keeps the original delay you set. If you set delays on waypoints in the middle of the chain, and move them it does not reset it either. The work around for this will be to set a very short move as the first waypoint that you will not likely move after the chain and delay are set. That's a good workaround for vehicles. An additional click every time (cos if you don't do it as SOP, you'll forget when it matters). But a workaround. An unnecessary one. It doesn't work anything like so "well" for infantry moves where the first leg doesn't want to be "smallest possible", or where you don't want them to hang around waiting for Slowcoach Moe to catch up so they can carry on. Again I think the 1 sec thing must have been needed for a reason unknown to us. Have you seen the times when you're moving a waypoint, the 1s delay appears at the unit, and then gets wiped when you drop the waypoint? Can be done sometimes. Can be done manually. Isn't only for troops in mid-move. Needs to go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I think the best thing to do is to get into the habit of setting the delay after moving the waypoints around, or avoid moving the 1st waypoint if you set the delay beforehand. In that case you will have to reset just the initial delay. The time resets ONLY for the initial delay, and ONLY if the first waypoint is moved. I’m sure I must have had this happened on a limited basis, and just reset the initial delay without thinking much about it. The combination of the condition of setting a delay, and happening to move the first waypoint doesn’t happen too often especially with infantry. I would say this could come up most when having to move convoys of vehicles. Even then it all revolves around a delay that has been set, and happening to move the 1st waypoint. Just keep it in your mind when planning, and setting delays that moving the first waypoint causes this problem, and try to avoid it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 When I were a lad there was one stair in our house that squeaked. My dad was a fairly violent chap and if his sleep was disturbed by someone stepping on that step he could go into an apoplectic rage. This went on for years, till my mother had enough and ordered him to fix the step. Problem solved and the house was peaceful after that. Why do we continually have to make silly excuses for things that are obviously a problem and need fixing? No one is saying it has to be done tomorrow... Hopefully, BF can just put it on the "to do" list when they can get around to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Hi Vinnart. In case you missed it: "A few seconds wasted here and there multiplied by several dozen units over a hundred turns or more adds up to hours wasted in frustration." Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it any more true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Only...how do you set a one meter move? The smallest I have seen are not much less than 8 meters as measured by the LOS gauge. Plot the waypoint far away and then move it back close to the unit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Plot the waypoint far away and then move it back close to the unit. Does this work for leg units? With them, I've always seen the waypoint move from one whole AS to another. Smaller moves just don't seem to happen. Have you seen differently? I already know that vehicular waypoints for some reason can be set at fractions of AS. I do that all the time. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroBodine Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Why do we continually have to make silly excuses for things that are obviously a problem and need fixing? No one is saying it has to be done tomorrow... Hopefully, BF can just put it on the "to do" list when they can get around to it. Again, I am new to this game and forum, but it does not seem like the developers respond to these forums. We now have 3+ pages of discussion on this bug, and not a one of them from the developers. Do they just not respond, or rarely? In my mind, this is a bug, and a fairly annoying bug, so it should get fixed. Hey, they are working on a new version of the game. Fix it there. It does not seem like a major issue to fix that would unbalance life, the universe, and everything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The trouble is Luke, that is IS true. Just do the math. Maybe you only play small scenarios? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Does this work for leg units? With them, I've always seen the waypoint move from one whole AS to another. Smaller moves just don't seem to happen. Have you seen differently? I already know that vehicular waypoints for some reason can be set at fractions of AS. I do that all the time. Michael No, you're living up to your sig. Vinnie was talking about vehicles, and you can plot really small increments for them, and they sometimes even follow them... Infantry, the workaround doesn't work so well for, both because of the quantum of movement and because they have to "rally" at every waypoint. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Again, I am new to this game and forum, but it does not seem like the developers respond to these forums. We now have 3+ pages of discussion on this bug, and not a one of them from the developers. Do they just not respond, or rarely? In my mind, this is a bug, and a fairly annoying bug, so it should get fixed. Hey, they are working on a new version of the game. Fix it there. It does not seem like a major issue to fix that would unbalance life, the universe, and everything. BFC tend to leave us to hash things out for a long time before jumping in. They have better things to do than shepherd our discussions. When they have time and something to say, rest assured they do intervene. They do not feel the same need to immediately justify every little quirk in the game, as some other development houses do. While that's contrary to the "modern" trend of pandering to the clamour of the faceless Internet, it doesn't seem to have prevented them actually listening, even when they haven't said they are. There was a period (a month back or so?) that Steve was posting pretty regularly, but we can take his current silence on most matters, even the ones that he's just "interested" in, to mean that launch day is imminent. BFC staff tend to be even more snowed under than usual in the days immediately before the launch, and we've found over the years that no news is good news. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 And as a new game/module/upgrade or whatever is about the be released they are usualy not as present on the forums as they are otherwise. Steve will soon show up again to adress stuff like this, Im sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroBodine Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Thank you, guys. That makes complete sense. I'm not complaining about the developers at all. You're right, though, there are some devs that are constantly on their own forums, responding to all issues and fixing things right then and there, even during crunch time. Chris at Arcen Games, for instance, is on his forums daily, all throughout his game development. And, he is the lead programmer. But, that is his way. Personally, I think he is a robot, the amount of stuff he gets done in a day. Anyway, I got in a nice long play session of CMBN yesterday, and I have fallen completely in love with this game. I assaulted an AT position that was hammering my Shermans. When my guys threw a grenade (with no grenade animation!) and blew up the crew, it was a thing of beauty to me. I immediately pre-ordered CMRT. Ok - back on topic, sorry for the detour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 BFC tend to leave us to hash things out for a long time before jumping in. They have better things to do than shepherd our discussions. It should also be noted that they have a bunch of regular volunteer testers that listen here and report issues that they hear about. Sometimes they get involved in the thread and sometimes they tell you they logged the issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiterider Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Why do we continually have to make silly excuses for things that are obviously a problem and need fixing? No one is saying it has to be done tomorrow... Hopefully, BF can just put it on the "to do" list when they can get around to it. Curiously the same guys who tend to make silly excuses are the same that feel happy once a commnunity "not realistic" idea is accepted by Battlefront.... It happens in many, many forums. Am I wrong? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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