PV Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Hi Battlefront.com Ostfrontwargames.com club members observe a robotic behavior of the tanks, with a high percentage of accurate success of the impact. in the CMBN and FI like it use computers and laser sights will be a legacy programming from CMSF? The V3.0 touch it? Best Regards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Sounds like English is not your native language. It sounds like a complaint about tanks being too accurate. If I've misunderstood, I apologize. Tank vision has been reduced. That should help. Also, some players use tanks with very high experience level. That makes them react too quickly. I think it's pretty much correct. (Not perfect, but very close.) Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 If you can obtain a copy of the book 'Freineux and Lamormenil, the Ardennes' by George Winter there is a blow by blow description of a tank battle from both sides. The tank crewmembers for the tanks for both sides were interviewed and they describe the action shot by shot in great detail. You might be surprised, but almost every shot was a first round hit with the ranges below 1000 meters as long as the enemy tank was stationary. I have also read numerous tank battle accounts from other sources that seem to indicate that first round hits below 1000 meters was fairly common as long as the gunner was well trained. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Sounds like English is not your native language. It sounds like a complaint about tanks being too accurate. If I've misunderstood, I apologize. Tank vision has been reduced. That should help. Also, some players use tanks with very high experience level. That makes them react too quickly. I think it's pretty much correct. (Not perfect, but very close.) Thanks, Ken Ha, ninja'd. Yeah, I think the accuracy is probably about right but the reaction time is the part that is probably too fast. Everything probably happens much more quickly in the game than in real life due to a variety of factors. Where an adjustment could be made would be how quickly the gunner gets on target after an enemy tank is spotted. That's been discussed before though and I'm not sure if there are any plans to revisit that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think a lot of the perceptions of "too accurate" tanks stems from the typical engagement ranges we see in CM battles. Many maps have initial shots at 500m, at which range the high velocity guns have a trajectory and flight time approximating to that of a laser, for all practical purposes, so you should expect high hit chances. The root of the problem is prior experience with games where the visual scale doesn't match the game scale, I reckon. In the same way that some maps are "too sparse" because of wargame table expectations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 That too, but I think a lot of it stems from the fact that accuracy was significantly lower in CMx1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrashb Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes - in CMx1 tank fire was often (usually?) bracketed until the hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyberg Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I've experienced numerous games where tanks traded shots before a first hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yep, I've just had a turn where a Sherman spotted a Jagdpanzer IV from the side at 700m First shot was 34m short. 2nd was about 14m short. 3rd hit the wall in front of the Jpz and 4th was a side hit. So he literally walked the rounds onto target - which looked pretty darn realistic and certainly wasn't a "laserlike" first shot hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PV Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Many thanks for your replies gentlemen I think the factors that make that aspect is ... the fast target acquisition rapid movements of the turret usage trained crew, greatly reduces the reaction times is good to have other points of view outside our little world you caught me, English is not my native language 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyberg Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It's exciting when your opponent misses his first shot, then your guy misses, then he misses again, only just, then it's the end of the turn ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 rapid movements of the turret I agree, turrets are moving quite robotic. I think that impression could be the result of the turrets missing accelaration and decelaration when they rotate. IRL a tanks turret has to accelerate to the speed with wich it rotates and then decelerate in order to stop turning, both processes wich happen over a certain amount of time. In the game however tank turrets always rotate at full speed IIRC, acceleration and deceleration happen instantaniously. That may be why they are looking robotic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I do agree ( and have asked for it in other threads ) that some short delays ( 1-3 seconds ) to simulate internal crew communication would be good and give the impression of ...well... a crew manning a machine rather than a robot tank. Eg. in my "spotting too well" thread on the BN forum, the tank turret begins to move simultaneously with the enemy icon appearing. Also, a period of disorientation etc. would seem appropriate for tanks receiving a Penetrating hit ( a bit like the system CM1 had ). At the moment, you can penetrate an enemy tank and if not KO'd, it will often shoot back almost immediately, whereas you'd think it would be full of smoke and noise, the crew would need to ascertain whether they're on fire/damaged etc. Crew casualties ( which don't cause Panic or Bailout ) are also replaced instantly or ignored. This may be more work than it sounds, but I do hope it's on the list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yikes, I haven't played Normandy or Italy very much at all and so hadn't really encountered these issues, but they sound very robot-like indeed, and I hope that the devs are taking a look... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skwabie Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 On a side note, while most of the rotation rates look spot on in CM, I know at least for the tiger its 6 deg/sec rate is only when engine idle, for the rotation mechanism is linked with engine RPM. But when it comes down to it, doesn't quite seem this kinda feature (ala turret inertia or rotation mechanism) is yet within CM's engine limits... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PV Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 It's exciting when your opponent misses his first shot, then your guy misses, then he misses again, only just, then it's the end of the turn ! 100% LIKE!!!!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I do agree ( and have asked for it in other threads ) that some short delays ( 1-3 seconds ) to simulate internal crew communication would be good and give the impression of ...well... a crew manning a machine rather than a robot tank. Eg. in my "spotting too well" thread on the BN forum, the tank turret begins to move simultaneously with the enemy icon appearing. Also, a period of disorientation etc. would seem appropriate for tanks receiving a Penetrating hit ( a bit like the system CM1 had ). At the moment, you can penetrate an enemy tank and if not KO'd, it will often shoot back almost immediately, whereas you'd think it would be full of smoke and noise, the crew would need to ascertain whether they're on fire/damaged etc. Crew casualties ( which don't cause Panic or Bailout ) are also replaced instantly or ignored. This may be more work than it sounds, but I do hope it's on the list. +1 on all of these points. With regards to reaction time, it should be based on crew quality and some tanks should be quicker than others. For example, in a situation where the target is spotted by the tank commander a Sherman would have a quicker reaction than most other tanks because of the ability of the tank commander to override the turret controls. I would also like to see the tank intercom system added as a damageable component. An inoperative intercom was a significant impediment to crew coordination. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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