A few questions regarding V3 and future

[Baneman]

With all the goodness that's coming with CMRT and V3.0, there are just a few niggly questions remaining :

1) Ammo - akd answered my question re. 7.92K availability in the affirmative ( thanks !), but will we be seeing grenades for resupply ( as per womble's question ) ? How about Schreck/PIAT ammo ?

1b) - Is there any chance of getting a fixed 100round option when Acquiring ?

At the moment the first 2 saps who get there have to take 500 rounds, weighing them down while reducing the ability to parcel it out across your force.

2)) Fog of War - I applaud the changes made to remove info from the UI, but the picture on the right remains - so we still know if it's an ATG/HMG/HQ.

Can that not also be 'blanked' ? Please ?

Now, since I hijacked GerryCMBB's earlier thread and he never got any answers, I add his here.

3) The loader of the ATG sees a juicy tank but the ATG cannot fire as the Gunner cannot see it.

Can it be changed so that the ATG team can make a small adjustment to the gun so it can fire at the target ?

4) Moving tanks being able to spot ATGs too easily?

This came up recently for me with regard to spotting infantry - see thread : http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=113549

5) In the CMFI AAR there seemed to be a problem with setting up bunkers where units seemed to have LOS but then when the game started the bunker dropped a bit into the mesh so there was no longer good LOS from it.

Was that a bug / has it been squashed ?

Thanks

[Erwin]

"3) The loader of the ATG sees a juicy tank but the ATG cannot fire as the Gunner cannot see it.

Can it be changed so that the ATG team can make a small adjustment to the gun so it can fire at the target ?"

Ditto for MG's... (And vehicles if at all possible.)

This phenomenon coupled with LOS issues are the last remaining major game "realism" problems with CM2.

And in terms of speeding up gameplay especially for larger scenarios, we need selectable waypoints/lines so we don't have to continually move the camera back to another location to find the unit we want and click on it just to make a change at its destination.

[womble]

1b) - Is there any chance of getting a fixed 100round option when Acquiring ?

Or maybe that wonder of wonders the text entry box for a custom amount. It's plain ridiculous the lengths you have to go through to split a 1000 round allocation in a small vehicle into 250 round UoF.

[Battlefront.com]

With all the goodness that's coming with CMRT and V3.0, there are just a few niggly questions remaining :

1) Ammo - akd answered my question re. 7.92K availability in the affirmative ( thanks !), but will we be seeing grenades for resupply ( as per womble's question ) ? How about Schreck/PIAT ammo ?

Yes, and 50mm mortar ammo too.

1b) - Is there any chance of getting a fixed 100round option when Acquiring ?

I'll see what I can do about this. Definitely no box for entering a value. That gets complicated and we don't see it being necessary.

2)) Fog of War - I applaud the changes made to remove info from the UI, but the picture on the right remains - so we still know if it's an ATG/HMG/HQ.

Good suggestion. Dunno, but have asked.

3) The loader of the ATG sees a juicy tank but the ATG cannot fire as the Gunner cannot see it.

Can it be changed so that the ATG team can make a small adjustment to the gun so it can fire at the target ?

No. This is one of those requests that sounds reasonable, but you have no idea how many problems would arise from this. More likely to cause you to curse than cheer.

The primary problem is the TacAI is not "smart" enough to understand what is a temporary problem and what will not be fixed by waiting. Obviously if the juicy target is going to get in your crosshairs anyway you don't want to move the gun. Because moving the gun means two things:

1. it can not fire for a few minutes until it is set up again.

2. vastly increases the chance of the gun being spotted.

It also is very difficult for the AI to weigh the pros of moving vs. the cons of staying put. If you know an even juicier target is coming in from a different angle you would not want your gun to move to engage the lesser vehicle. On top of that, you are a far better judge if the time to redeploy is sufficient to engage in the first place. No point moving to get off a shot when it's pretty clear the target is headed back into cover and will be out of sight before the gun is set up again.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

If a non-gunner is spotting a juicy target that the gunner can't see then either wait or relocate the gun manually.

4) Moving tanks being able to spot ATGs too easily?

This is being looked into already. It might have had something to do with a couple of bugs we cleaned up a week or two ago.

5) In the CMFI AAR there seemed to be a problem with setting up bunkers where units seemed to have LOS but then when the game started the bunker dropped a bit into the mesh so there was no longer good LOS from it.

Was that a bug / has it been squashed ?

Not bug per se, but rather unintended outcome from generally good game behavior. It's a major problem to work around. As it so happens Charles and I just talked about this a few days ago. It's on the list to be fixed but I have no idea when it will be.

Steve

[Fenris]

"...

And in terms of speeding up gameplay especially for larger scenarios, we need selectable waypoints/lines so we don't have to continually move the camera back to another location to find the unit we want and click on it just to make a change at its destination.

Yes please!

-F

[AttorneyAtWar]

Yes please!

-F

+1 to this!

[pkanarki]

Yes please!

-F

+2 clickable waypoints, please please BFC

[Baneman]

Thank you for taking the time to answer our incessant queries ( and make cooing soothing noises ).

re. Q3 - I think the question was originally meant to imply a "jiggle within the AS" adjustment rather than a move per se, but I can see your point regarding the AI.

[Childress]

4) Moving tanks being able to spot ATGs too easily? This came up recently for me with regard to spotting infantry - see thread : http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=113549

A propos of spotting ATGs, is it easier to a get a fix on them under dry as opposed to wet conditions? Leaving aside flashless powder considerations, one of the clues to their existence was the dust these weapons kicked up when firing.

[womble]

Definitely no box for entering a value. That gets complicated and we don't see it being necessary.

It's not necessary, no. It would be a splendid ease-of-use addition though. It takes an absolute bundle of mouse clicks/button presses to, for example, divide the 1000 9mm rounds in a stubby half track (with 6 passenger spaces) evenly between 4 4-man teams. You have first to embark each team in turn to pick up their 200 rounds, and the last one can grab an additional 50. Then you remount one of the other teams, they grab a 50. Put the third team in for the second time, have them grab 40, replace them with the 4th team, have them grab 40 then 10, and finally put the third team into the vehicle for the third time, and grab the last 10. A lot of hokey cokey with mouse clicks. It's a similar rigmarole with the 2000 rifle rounds in a truck.

Embark the unit, "Acquire", select the ammo type and enter the number of rounds you want would be much less involved.

[poesel]

...

It also is very difficult for the AI to weigh the pros of moving vs. the cons of staying put.

...

As I understood the question it was about the situation when one man can see the target but the gunner can't (ATG, HMG, Mortar) and both are in the same AS. Currently there is nothing you can do except for relocating to another AS when the only thing necessary was to push the gun a bit or to bend a twig to get LOS.

In such a case wouldn't a target order not be enough indication for the AI that the player wants to shoot at a target? Maybe you would get a different colour on the target line in this case and the gun would be incapable of shooting for a small amount of random time during relocation. After that time the gun is in the position of the guy who could spot and is ready to shoot.

[MikeyD]

About #3). Remember LOF works both ways. If shifting the gun was automated imagine the number of times your keyholed gun might decide to relocate itself right into oblivion. You'd wake the neighbors screaming at the computer!

[Erwin]

"In such a case wouldn't a target order not be enough indication for the AI that the player wants to shoot at a target? Maybe you would get a different colour on the target line in this case and the gun would be incapable of shooting for a small amount of random time during relocation. After that time the gun is in the position of the guy who could spot and is ready to shoot."

I thought his xnt point was that IF you wanted to shoot at the target AND were willing to wait for the gun to relocate, you could order that fire command, and the AI would do what was necessary. So, no AI taking control and doing something that you don't want.

Also, in the case of a MG the wait time would be negligible.

[Battlefront.com]

Again, you guys are vastly simplifying something that is inherently massively complex. If it WERE simple, it would already be in the game. Having the AI exercise any significant capability over the placement of a crew served weapon is a bad idea. We can never make it "smart" enough for you guys. The howls of anger over the TacAI relocating or not relocating would be 100 times what you see now. It's simply not worth doing.

And no, having a Human issued Target Command doesn't help one bit. If I see something coming into my view, but it's not there yet, and I use a Target Command in anticipation of the target progressing into my gunner's sights, how pissed off do you think I'd be if my gun crew packed up and started to move instead of waiting?

So I'll say it again... we are NOT going to go down the rabbit hole. The behavior we have in the game now is the only one that makes sense.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

As I understood the question it was about the situation when one man can see the target but the gunner can't (ATG, HMG, Mortar) and both are in the same AS. Currently there is nothing you can do except for relocating to another AS when the only thing necessary was to push the gun a bit or to bend a twig to get LOS.

This is not correct. Spotting is Action Spot to Action Spot, LOS/LOF is from point of fire to point of contact (a target or area). This means an ATG in Action Spot A might be 100% unable to spot something in Action Spot B. In that case nobody in the gun crew will ever spot and therefore moving the gun is the only option. As it should be. You should also know this ahead of time because the Target Command shows this information.

In the case that one guy in the ATG crew can spot something, but the Gunner can not, that is more situationally dependent. It could be that the target has not quite revealed itself in front of the gun, or it could be that the gunner is aimed in the wrong direction (at the moment), or any number of situations which are not permanent.

Steve

[LukeFF]

I'll see what I can do about this. Definitely no box for entering a value. That gets complicated and we don't see it being necessary.

Fine, but yes, rifle and SMG ammo really, really needs to be available in consistent 100-round increments. Some of the available ammo amounts - as womble alluded to - are patently ridiculous right now.

[poesel]

First: I'm nor arguing for automatic TacAI relocation of guns. Bad idea, totally agree.

This is not correct. Spotting is Action Spot to Action Spot, LOS/LOF is from point of fire to point of contact (a target or area). This means an ATG in Action Spot A might be 100% unable to spot something in Action Spot B. In that case nobody in the gun crew will ever spot and therefore moving the gun is the only option. As it should be. You should also know this ahead of time because the Target Command shows this information.

Also no argument. When there is no LOS from any team member to the target then that is that. Player decision to move or stay put.

In the case that one guy in the ATG crew can spot something, but the Gunner can not, that is more situationally dependent. It could be that the target has not quite revealed itself in front of the gun, or it could be that the gunner is aimed in the wrong direction (at the moment), or any number of situations which are not permanent.

This is the situation the OP (I think) and I talk about: a team member spots the enemy but it is not the gunner. Apart from a FACE command there is nothing you can do and it is not sure to work.

Worst case example: a bazooka team and only the loader spots a tank. Now they could just switch positions and fire but they don't. Similar situations with increasing effort needed are MGs, mortars and ATGs.

Would I want them to automatically shift inside their AS and loose their facing and making the gun unready for a period of time? No.

But if I give them an explicit target order? Yes.

[Erwin]

Well, in terms of programming effort, I would make CMSF v3 a priority over getting this issue resolved.

[Baneman]

@Womble - wow, you really take "sharing equally" to a whole new level !

Generally though, one is trying to share out 1 truckload amongst a platoon, where a 100 round option will be more than adequate for reasonable sharing. I for one, will be totally happy if Steve can get that much for us.