JonS Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 1) you cant disarm surrendering soldiers and send em back to the POW camp in CM Yes, you can. sometimes a surrendering soldier in CM will pick up his weapon again and start shooting. only if the enemies 'force field' around the guy with his hands in the air is stronger than yours. guys who've attempted to surrender take up their weapons again, their morale remains very fragile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yes, you can. What Jon means is that the white flag and the guy disappearing represent exactly the "disarming and sending back" of the chap offering to surrender. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 What Jon means is that the white flag and the guy disappearing represent exactly the "disarming and sending back" of the chap offering to surrender. .. and, specifically, "you can" means that it's is up to you - the player - to ensure your forcefield is stronger over the guys with their hands in the air than the enemy's. If you fail to, or chose not to, do so then they'll either just kneel there with their hands in the air (if the two forcefields are roughly balanced at that point) or get back into the fight (if the enemy's forcefield is stronger). It's your choice whether the offered surrender is accepted, and they are disarmed and sent back. Who else's choice should it be? If you really really just want to shoot them; pull back a bit and your guys will happily slot them when they pick up their rifles again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 .. and, specifically, "you can" means that it's is up to you - the player - to ensure your forcefield is stronger over the guys with their hands in the air than the enemy's. If you fail to, or chose not to, do so then they'll either just kneel there with their hands in the air (if the two forcefields are roughly balanced at that point) or get back into the fight (if the enemy's forcefield is stronger). It's your choice whether the offered surrender is accepted, and they are disarmed and sent back. Who else's choice should it be? If you really really just want to shoot them; pull back a bit and your guys will happily slot them when they pick up their rifles again. Yeah, that makes sense, although i ve never done that intentionally yet. The idea of invisible forcefields that cause surrendering soldiers to automatically teleport to the next POW camp depending on whose local forcefield is stronger is quite an abstract representation of how i imagine taking prisioners works IRL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 The idea of invisible forcefields that cause ...surrendering soldiers to automatically teleport to the next POW camp depending on whose local forcefield is stronger is quite an abstract representation of how i imagine taking prisioners works IRL. Well, forcefields probably isn't a great term for it, but its how I think of it. You increase the power of your forcefield by having more men (in better condition) and more weapons closer to the guy with his hands in the air, and decrease it by moving them away. Like a forcefield, power is related to proximity and density. It's an abstract way of thinking about it, maybe, but I'm not really sure it's all that abstract as a game mechanic. Think of it as a bunch of angry looking guys yelling at you to come over to them, versus a bunch of your mates yelling at you to grab your rifle and leg it back to where they are. The more angry guys there are (that is; the stronger their forcefield) the more likely you are to surrender. But if there's fewer angry guys and more friends around ... well ... maybe you just might get your head back in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vencini Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think programmers have code into the pixeltruppen "The Geneva Convention" They never act like in the video, unless the player order them to do that... Well done programmers!We don't want butchers into our ranks! Regards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Tamson Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 One wonders how CM would handle 23,000 prisoners surrendering to one man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Macpherson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 One wonders how CM would handle 23,000 prisoners surrendering to one man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Macpherson With a great disappearing flutter of white flags, I imagine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maarten Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Imagine the turn processing time on that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 One wonders how CM would handle 23,000 prisoners surrendering to one man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Macpherson From Wikipedia: "On another occasion Macpherson took decisive action as the Second Motorised SS Infantry Division and the Das Reich Division pushed towards the fragile Normandy beach-head. Unarmed and accompanied by a doctor and a French officer, he drove a stolen German Red Cross Land Rover through ten miles of enemy-held territory, through machine gun fire and straight to the Das Reich Division headquarters where, dressed in full Highland regalia, he warned that he would unleash heavy artillery and call on the RAF if they did not surrender. In consequence, 23,000 German troops surrendered. It was a bluff that may have saved thousands of lives." Wait, he did what? I laughed out loud when i read that story. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 This wikipedia article is full of sh*t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 This wikipedia article is full of sh*t. Yeah, some of it is quite difficult to believe indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1324390/The-hero-kilt-tackled-Panzer-division--accepted-surrender-23-000-German-soldiers.html Behind Enemy Lines: An Autobiography Of Britain’s Most Decorated War Hero by Sir Tommy MacPherson with Richard Bath, is published by Mainstream or there's this story > The Mass Surrender of German Troops to the 347th Infantry Regiment on May 6, 1945 http://www.87thinfantrydivision.com/History/347th/Personal/000019/000019.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collingwood Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 A mass surrender of troops to a single officer would indeed be impressive if it happened earlier in the war. May 6th 1945 though... surrenders were happening everywhere. Still, no doubt it took some guts to pull off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Tamson Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 This wikipedia article is full of sh*t. Which bits? His story is very well known where I come from. If you know different I'd be interested to hear it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 From Wikipedia: "On another occasion Macpherson took decisive action...dressed in full Highland regalia...In consequence, 23,000 German troops surrendered. Goes to show what some men will do when you show 'em some skin. Betty Grable eat yer heart out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transporter Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I have never deliberately tried to shoot a prisoner, but I've found when I forgot to turn off area fire some of those who have surrendered got killed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I have never deliberately tried to shoot a prisoner, but I've found when I forgot to turn off area fire some of those who have surrendered got killed Yeah, it happens when one trooper decides to call it a day, but his mates don't, too. All the bullets you or the TacAI send at the spotted target are aimed at troops still in the fight, but there are lots of misses (especially because the whole element is probably near to breaking and thus doing a lot of cowering in whatever cover is available), and that kneeling position is often very exposed indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I have never deliberately tried to shoot a prisoner, but I've found when I forgot to turn off area fire some of those who have surrendered got killed I think this could have been disabled at some point. I have seen that exact same thing as well but last night when playing I wanted to retreat from a bad spot that would take me out of view of a group of surrendered troops and didn't want to have to fight them again so targeted with area fire briefly before I ran away. No casualties. I thought it odd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I think this could have been disabled at some point. I have seen that exact same thing as well but last night when playing I wanted to retreat from a bad spot that would take me out of view of a group of surrendered troops and didn't want to have to fight them again so targeted with area fire briefly before I ran away. No casualties. I thought it odd. It's pretty random. Can take a few minutes (unless the incoming is really withering) before the poor fella gets in the way of a bullet and becomes "collateral damage". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 It's pretty random. Can take a few minutes (unless the incoming is really withering) before the poor fella gets in the way of a bullet and becomes "collateral damage". I know it can take a bit of shooting but it was a squad of 10 guys with an SMG, 2xMG42s and rifles "targeting briefly" at a square next to them. Lots of bullets flew. Not really fussed either way but it did seem out of whack with what I have seen in the past. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I know for certain that fire at other members of a partially surrendered element can kill the individuals attempting to surrender, and I think I've seen area fire do for surrenderers too, since v2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Which bits? His story is very well known where I come from. Well ... "On another occasion Macpherson took decisive action as the Second Motorised SS Infantry Division and the Das Reich Division pushed towards the fragile Normandy beach-head. Unarmed and accompanied by a doctor and a French officer, he drove a stolen German Red Cross Land Rover through ten miles of enemy-held territory, through machine gun fire and straight to the Das Reich Division headquarters where, dressed in full Highland regalia, he warned that he would unleash heavy artillery and call on the RAF if they did not surrender. In consequence, 23,000 German troops surrendered. It was a bluff that may have saved thousands of lives." Firstly there was only the 2nd SS "Das Reich" Div, not 'Second Motorised SS Infantry Division and the Das Reich Division'. Secondly, by the time 2nd SS started moving, the beachhead wasn't that fragile. The Allies definitely benefited from the delay imposed on 2SS on it's way up to the front, but that delay wasn't - on its own - decisive. Thirdly, what the heck is a "German Red Cross Land Rover"? Fourthly, the Jedburgh guys working inland from Bordeaux weren't "10 miles behind enemy lines". The whole freaking country was enemy occupied (less a bit of Normandy). Also, borrowing from Band of Brothers, he was a Jed - they're supposed to be surrounded. Fifthly, 2SS in its entirety was less than 23,000 men. The material losses and delays inflicted on 2SS were frustrating enough to lead that division to Oradour sur Glane, but numbered in the hundreds, not tens of thousands. The total number of surrenders was in the low tens. Sixthly, use your noggin. We already know that Macpherson was tens (actually hundreds) of miles from the nearest friendly conventional forces. Even if we take the story at face value, what the heck do you think he was going to do with 23,000 POW that far from home? Max Hasting's book Das Reich (about the march of that division from southern France up to Normandy, and the troubles it encountered on the way) has several glowing sections on Macpherson, including an attack on a small military convoy. Nowhere does he so much as hint at anything even vaguely resembling 23,000 PW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets_All_Fight Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Which bits? His story is very well known where I come from. If you know different I'd be interested to hear it. He lives in the same village as my parents. I'd never heard about him until about a year ago when one of my dad's friends was telling me about him. Quite the auld bugger, by all accounts - mind you, I think he's more than earned the right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets_All_Fight Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I know for certain that fire at other members of a partially surrendered element can kill the individuals attempting to surrender, and I think I've seen area fire do for surrenderers too, since v2. Yeah, I've seen this recently. I had the remains of an SS squad attempt to surrender to some GIs. The GIs gunned down one of the guys with his hands in the air - it was pretty brutal to see - but this was before the white flag appeared so it might well have been an attempt to suppress elements the AI regarded as still dangerous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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