First Mission-The road to Nijmegen error

[Bartokomus]

In the briefing you're notified you'll receive off-board battalion mortars (81mm) in the first 10m or so. I received the notification that I received 81mm mortars but they never showed up in the available artillery pane (and yes I scrolled to the right). I would guess just a problem with the scenario that beta testers didn't catch, but I thought I would report it in. all other reinforcements arrived which I was notified of, but not those.

[verulam]

In the briefing you're notified you'll receive off-board battalion mortars (81mm) in the first 10m or so. I received the notification that I received 81mm mortars but they never showed up in the available artillery pane (and yes I scrolled to the right). I would guess just a problem with the scenario that beta testers didn't catch, but I thought I would report it in. all other reinforcements arrived which I was notified of, but not those.

Ditto, same for me. I was daft enough to have these in my plan.

[Holien]

Yep same here, but 60mm should be enough to deal with what we need to deal with.. Just started playing last night and another lovely looking map... Very different from Normandy as it should be..

Thxs PT for what I hope is another master piece

[Lille Fiskerby]

The same here, no 81 mm. mortars.

Great map in the first scenario and I am really looking forward

to the other battles in this campaign.

Another thing, not of importance, but PT says A+B Coy from 3 IG

and A Sq. from 2 (armd) IG but the Guards used numbers instead of letters

so A coy. was No. 1 Company and so on, the same in the armoured Squadrons

A Sq. was No. 1 Sq and so on.

LF.

[ZPB II]

It is an epic campaign, a work of art.

Unfortunately due to the sheer colossal size of it and the fact that it was made by one volunteer man in his especially limited free time due to RL constraints, some errors and mishaps may and apparently have slipped through.

(I'm not entirely sure of this but I think those mortar reinforcements were working as intended earlier, something may have changed between builds or in the final compile. Or it was something that was missed entirely!)

Thanks for bringing this up and thanks to Paper Tiger for all the great campaigns he has made.

(if fingers need to be pointed, blame me for sloppy testing rather than blaming PT)

[Lille Fiskerby]

I can only imagine how much work and time 16 battles takes, so I tip my hat to

Paper Tiger for all your great work.

LF.

[Bartokomus]

(if fingers need to be pointed, blame me for sloppy testing rather than blaming PT)

Never forgive, never forget; my eye is on you Zebulon...

[Paper Tiger]

I would guess just a problem with the scenario that beta testers didn't catch, but I thought I would report it in. all other reinforcements arrived which I was notified of, but not those.

Not the beta testers' fault. That's my fault and mine alone. When importing the final core units, I deleted the battalion mortars by mistake.

if fingers need to be pointed, blame me for sloppy testing rather than blaming PT

Well, that's right honourable of you But these are the 2/505 missions

Fortunately, the other 2/505 missions are WAD and you have more than enough firepower in mission 1 to take down the Germans in good time so it shouldn't be a problem.

[verulam]

I'm astounded by how talented the designer is. Well done Sir.

[PanzerMike]

Never forgive, never forget; my eye is on you Zebulon...

Watch it! No messin' with Third Wavers, no Sir

[Fizou]

I was very happy to learn that there was a new "The road to" campaign. I havent tried it yet but look forward to doing so. PT is a really a top campaign designer and I hope this is a trend of "The road to" campaigns as new families and moduels are released

[gunnersman]

The way I see it something happened that the mortar teams could not be available (coincidentally each ammo bearer from each mortar team tripped and fell blowing everybody up as they were trying to move ammo for their respective team) Use your imagination.

[Michael Emrys]

The way I see it something happened that the mortar teams could not be available (coincidentally each ammo bearer from each mortar team tripped and fell blowing everybody up as they were trying to move ammo for their respective team) Use your imagination.

I prefer to think that they encountered a friendly farm girl who offered them her...ahem...hospitality.

Michael

[TVRWazzock]

On the 3rd Mission of the road to Nijmegen campaign "Hells Highway", I called in the typhoons after 5 mins and they truned on my forces knocking out two shermans and leaving a very large crater smack in the middle of the road, and my forces were outside the area of the intended Typhoon attack. ---- Cool

Where is the purple smoke ;-)

Awesome game though :-)

[Bartokomus]

I called in my typhoons in the 3rd mission as well; they both can on station, loitered, for a few minutes, and disappeared. apparently 700 yds is danger close...

I hate the air force.

[Pak40]

PT, I'm wondering why the 505 are all Regular in The Road to Nijmegen? Going into D-Day they were one of the most trained and experienced units in the U.S. Army. Perhaps only some Ranger units would be considered better. Obviously there were casualties in Normandy and these were replaced by fresh troopers, but I think as a whole the 505 would be at least Veterans with some better troops sprinkled in.

[Ithikial_AU]

PT, I'm wondering why the 505 are all Regular in The Road to Nijmegen? Going into D-Day they were one of the most trained and experienced units in the U.S. Army. Perhaps only some Ranger units would be considered better. Obviously there were casualties in Normandy and these were replaced by fresh troopers, but I think as a whole the 505 would be at least Veterans with some better troops sprinkled in.

I thought replacements without combat experience would be a good reason to bump them down the regular overall. Was the training regime and the chance for wargames etc as rigorous for forces dropping into Normandy? Need a replacement grog.

[Paper Tiger]

PT, I'm wondering why the 505 are all Regular in The Road to Nijmegen? Going into D-Day they were one of the most trained and experienced units in the U.S. Army. Perhaps only some Ranger units would be considered better. Obviously there were casualties in Normandy and these were replaced by fresh troopers, but I think as a whole the 505 would be at least Veterans with some better troops sprinkled in

There's a simple answer to that. As far as the game engine goes, I consider the behaviour of Regular experience of troops to be what I'd expect to see from Veteran troops. As far as I'm concerned, Regular = Veteran and Green = Regular. There are a few Veteran units mixed in there but they're usually the Platoon HQs.

[Pak40]

I thought replacements without combat experience would be a good reason to bump them down the regular overall. Was the training regime and the chance for wargames etc as rigorous for forces dropping into Normandy? Need a replacement grog.

Nah, not at all. Even though experienced units replace casualties with green troops, they are always mixed in with experienced troops. My opinion on this is the following in the U.S. Army:

Regular Army Infantry division fresh on the front line = Green, maybe some regulars mixed in.

Regular Army ID experienced (1st ID, 2nd ID etc...) = Regular with some Veterans in the mix

Now everyone knows that the U.S. Paratroopers were highly trained, motivated with high esprit de corps etc... Certainly a cut above your normal Infantry Division. With that in mind:

101st Airborne should = Veterans mostly with some regulars and even elites. Even on D-Day this should be the case although the division was technically green.

82nd Airborne = Healthy mix of Veterans and Elites. The 505th PIR was the most experienced of all the 82nd regiments having seen combat back in North Africa IIRC.

Just my 2 cents

[Pak40]

There's a simple answer to that. As far as the game engine goes, I consider the behaviour of Regular experience of troops to be what I'd expect to see from Veteran troops. As far as I'm concerned, Regular = Veteran and Green = Regular. There are a few Veteran units mixed in there but they're usually the Platoon HQs.

Not sure I agree with you on that, after all I think BFC has these settings for a reason, but as long as the German side is equally set relative to their historical units then I'm sure it will play out as it should.

[Paper Tiger]

Not sure I agree with you on that,

A bit of a digression here (again) but hopefully, it should make sense. I love movies, all different genres. I was deeply impressed by Schlesinger's 'Far From the Madding Crowd' and 'Spring and Port Wine' when I was in my teens. But in addition to more serious movies, I have a strange affection for Schwarzenegger movies. Don't ask me why. Sometimes, it's nice just to switch your brain off and enjoy the ride and most of his movies have worked for me. (I love 'Die Hard 1-4' too)

However, there was one movie, 'Commando', that I found utterly unwatchable because the climax featured him running through a compound taking out an army of bad guys while they couldn't hit squat. Boring. Unbelievable. Ridiculous. I just fast-forwarded through the "action".

I find playing with Veteran/Crack and Elite troops to be in this category. Green is where I feel the game behaves more in line with what I think real-life WW2 combat should be. Upping units' experience levels to keep them in line with BFC's settings results in unrealistic combat, or rather, more like 'Commando'. Vet/Crack units insta-spot enemy units and frequently get kills with their first shot. 'Sarge. Spotted enemy vehicle" <crack> tank commander shot dead with first shot. 'Well done, Sergeant Rock!' I actually saw that happen several times playtesting this campaign when the Paras were Vet/Crack as they should be. And the Irish Guards were veterans too. The spotting, first shot kills were killing all the fun for me. I even saw a Veteran Staghound move Fast up the road, insta-spot a JPz IV, fire off a shot while moving Fast, hit and kill the JPz IV. Bad Action movie.

after all I think BFC has these settings for a reason

The same could be said for pre-v2.01 machine gun behaviour or pre-v2.1's inability of troops to fire bazookas, Panzerfausts etc from inside buildings. Just because they choose to set it up that way doesn't mean it's right. If enough people want it changed, (and they don't), they'll change it.

but as long as the German side is equally set relative to their historical units then I'm sure it will play out as it should.

You'll probably notice that I didn't mention Conscript = Green in my earlier post. That's because I think Conscript is just fine thanks. IMO, what we need is another level between current Conscript and Green to model Green troops properly in the game. In the campaign, I just gave Green troops that were meant to be Green negative leadership modifiers and low morale.

There's nothing here that I haven't done before. I wanted to make the 2/8 INF in Montebourg Green and indeed made them so in the rework. Some folks really appreciated how much better the campaign played because of that one change so I'm not alone in thinking that the behaviour of Veteran+ troops is unrealistic in the game. However, I am deeply conscious of the slur on the reputation of such fine fighting outfits. Hopefully, the respect I have for them is revealed in my efforts to make it real rather than making it "Commando"

[Childress]

The same could be said for pre-v2.01 machine gun behaviour or pre-v2.1's inability of troops to fire bazookas, Panzerfausts etc from inside buildings. Just because they choose to set it up that way doesn't mean it's right. If enough people want it changed, (and they don't), they'll change it.

If there's on thing that bugs me it's a scenario composed entirely of Crack and Elite troops. But BF isn't insensitive to these sorts of criticisms. Problem is, they can go either way- toward greater playability or more stringent realism. You never know for sure.

If memory serves, the most punitive morale and suppression system yet seen in a CM game was introduced in CMBB. Pulling off an infantry assault, for example, required very careful planning. Rewarding when it worked but you really had to line up your ducks in a row. But players found it disconcerting after CMBO and moans arose from the forums: 'it's like herding geese!'. In response a chastened Battlefront softened this behavior for CMAK. They ditched or modified the infamous 'crawl of death' (a good thing).

But players adapted. Years go by. Now many view, in retrospect, the basic system in CMBB as the zenith of realism: 'damn, that's how it really was'. Go figure. They can't win!

My hunch is that players would be shocked at how brittle the typical WW2 unit, currently depicted in game as Regular, actually was.

[LukeFF]

"Regular" skill level for me is the best balance between troops being able to withstand enemy fire and at the same time knowing when to keep their heads down. Green requires too much babysitting and Veteran starts to go in the opposite direction.

On that note, I wish most units in the KG Engel campaign were dialed down an experience level or two. There's way too many Crack and Elite troops in that campaign to be believable.

[poesel]

IMO, what we need is another level between current Conscript and Green to model Green troops properly in the game.

+1 to that. I've played a lot conscript troops in QBs. After a while we moved to green because the conscripts are just too useless - especially for mortars or tanks. But conscripts depict clueless farm boys quite well.

I don't know if abilities are spread linearly over qualities. If so then may be they could be quadratic or exponential to get more granularity in the lower ranges while keeping the absolute levels at the bottom and top the same?

[Lille Fiskerby]

Thank you Paper Tiger for this campaign, its great ! I'm playing the "Bloody Aalst" battle

right now and what an fantastic map you have created, its one of the best ever.

SPOILER ! some of the best house to house combat I have played and some very nasty

88 mm, great deployment of the germans BTW.

LF