CW Armies

[db_zero]

I've pretty much stuck to playing Americans and Germans. I've recently started 2 h2h games where I'm playing the CW side-Polish and British. Not very fimilar with either and not sure what to think.

Some radom thoughts. Snipers teams seem good if you get them. The 51mm mortars don't appear to have much ammo to shoot off. Can't say much yet abt the firepower of the squads vs. Germans/Americans.

Bren carriers appear to be like M3's-taxis that become coffins if they encounter any sort of fire. Churchills seem well protected, but ponderous...I haven't used them extensively, but I get impression they can mow through bocage fairly easily. Haven't used Firefly yet, but imagine the Germans will focus on them first.

Any other observations from those more experienced would be appreciated.

[James Crowley]

Churchills should - and did - climb bocage successfully but that is not modelled so even low bocage will halt them, just like any other vehicle.

If you have seen it drive through low bocage - it was probably a hedge!

[slysniper]

There is some old threads on this that are very good, discussing the make up of the British army and how to best use them. Check back to dates when CW first came out.

The one major difference is that squads and companies just do not have the firepower you have while playing the Germans or Americans.

But understanding how to play with the brems and stens can make for some fun new challenges.

Best sniper team I have ever had was a Brit team, 2 guys both with sniper rifles. They had 22 kills and lived to tell about it.

The firefly is great, the trick is do not use it with the rest of your armor, leave them hidden and as overwatch. When your other armor or infantry exposes a heavy german tank. Sneak them into place and hopefully get the first shot off. If you get that you will normally win the battle. then slide them back into hiding and do again. I find once the german knows I have fireflys, I can keep him in check if I can keep them alive. The best method of doing that is just as I pointed out. The back line of your forces, taking shoot and scoot tactics as neccessary.

[Sublime]

The Brits/CW have some fantastic stuff the US doesnt. However their shermans DONT have the 50 cal (which I missed a lot) and they dont have the US 60mm mortars which you will miss. The firepower on their squads is probably weakest except for Italians.

However some bright spots - the organic sniper teams. 51mm is actually better for its smoke rounds, though the HE will kill Germans - especially useful in an emergency for an MG42 or German heavy weapons teams (or HQ)

The Brit formations are interesting - I especially like their assault/pioneer sections, and my favorite by far are the Brit scouts. You get several teams of 3 men, each with a Sten, Bren, and rifle. Its a good size team, with just enough firepower. If you get their vehicles with them then you can usually outfit several of the teams with a light mortar or PIAT.

Tanks are a mixed bag - Ive had pretty lousy luck with Cromwells and wouldnt recommend them, speed and everything else aside. However the Churchill is a fantastic tank. Ive seen Churchills shrug off the entire AT ammo load of a Panther at 500m the armor is so good. Of course in this instance the Churchill was cleverly placed by Winkelried on a slope, but nevertheless - As far as churchills the 95mm close support tank is.. well fantastic all around, though as far as AT wise it has to use HEAT rounds and only has enough to deal with 1-2 tanks. The 6lber Churchill however will routinely KO Tiger Is, and is well equipped to deal with Panthers as well. You should always get one or two of these churchillls if you go with the tank. The 75mm churchills are the weakest IMO, though best all around. Jack of all trades, master of none type thing. Remember though the churchill is fantastically armored you still cant play like a German with a Tiger II - you have to be smart, and try to be sitting still when encountering enemy armor. The German tanks rounds will somehow always find weak spots, or just the right angle, and unlike your rounds they almost always kill. An 88 Im pretty sure goes right through a churchill ( I mean Tiger I 88, not the longer version) the Panther high 75 can sometimes, othertimes cant. Thats still a hell of a lot more than a Churchilll 75 will do to any German tank (except Pz IV) front.

Of course the Firefly is the best Sherman in the game so far IMO, though the HE effect against infantry is pretty weak. Otherwise this tank is a must have if you.re expecting heavy German armor, though I personally like the Churchill better =)

As far as CW arty, any time I have CW I by default will use the 25lber. Its got a fantastic rate of fire and you have two choices - you can get 4 25 lbers, or a battery of 8 which is devastating to use with TRPs.

[Freyberg]

I love those Bren Carriers. They're brilliant at winkling out enemy infantry in positions that are deadly for dismounted infantry.

[Other Means]

If you can, a late model Churchill supported by Achillies is a fantastic combination.

The Churchill leads your attack and is close infantry support. It has so much MG ammo you can basically use area fire all game without worrying about it. They can shrug off enough MkIV ammo to make your opponent wary about approaching them with anything but his heavies and the heavies are vulnerable too.

If it comes under attack anything that it can't beat can be killed by your Achillies, which are cheap for the gun you get - but you've got to be careful with them.

As others have said the infantry don't have a great deal of firepower but what they do have is ammo depth. Use them to find the enemy and pin him, then use the organic mortar or arty to dislodge them.

So it's the ultimate rock/paper/scissors army. Use the right tool and they're brilliant, but the tools are specialised and need to be used correctly.

I've got a soft spot for the UCs. You start off thinking they're a waste of time and end up loving them. Zipping PIATs around, moving HQs or snipers - great fun.

I actually really like the PIAT. Not as accurate or as powerful as the shrek or bazooka, but they are a lot more stealthy.

[kensal]

British tactical doctrine in Normandy was based on a battalion attack, two companies up, and the principle of "the closer you are [to the barrage], the safer you are".

They were extensively trained to advance very closely against a moving artillery barrage. The basic idea was to put the infantry forward, force a German counterattack and saturate the counterattack area with artillery.

Advanced first world war tactics and very effective, although costly. Sadly for the pbi there was no quick alternative way of working through the German panzer forces

[db_zero]

Very interesting comments and tips. Why is it I'm not surprised a person with a name slysniper had a Brit sniper team with 22 kills and suggests using Firefly tanks in what appears to be an armored sniper role-that does make sense and was not the way I envisioned using them. Not sure if in real life the British did the same.

On the 51mm mortars useful for smoke. I may be missing something, but when I've used American and German mortars and directly target enemy positions, I can't fire smoke rounds. It seems you can only create smoke screens when someone calls in fire and you'll have to go through the usual delay and spotting rounds. Maybe I'm missing something. I tend to like to use mortars in a direct fire mode and being able to lay down a quick smoke screen would be useful.

The Lee Enfield has a reputation as having one of the smoothest bolt actions ever created. I handled some used ones, but the .303 ammo isn't common and relatively expensive. If .308 or .223 Enfields were common I'd get one. I think some countries that got some surplus Enfields may have re-chambered them. I know the CW used Tommy guns. I haven't noticed if that's reflected in the game. Being weaker in firepower it must have been murder to try and root out the Germans in the hills and mountains of Italy-especially when facing the German paras who tended to have plenty of rapid fire weapons.

Can't say I was fond of the Bren carrier when I first used it, but it starting to grow on me. Unlike the M3 or Hannomag its carrying capacity is smaller-which may be a good thing-less men lost if it gets flamed. I like to break up my squads and noticed when I pile them into a M3 or Hannomag they get recombined if they are part of the same squad which kinda irritates me. The .303 Bren isn't as powerful as the MaDuce mounted on some M3's, but don't really think its a huge deal. I suppose the lower profile and smaller size increases the Brens carriers survivability?

I did like the Crocodile back in the CM1 days. Always needed to get one and flame away. Can't recall if I used one when playing the old RTS Blitzkrieg or one of the add-ons.

I'm starting to use the Cromwell. No opinion yet. I just killed a PZII recon tank. I'll see how it holds up against MKIV's.

Churchills are pretty tough. So far its shrugged off all the AT rounds from 50mms, but one bounced off its hide and landed near some infantry and exploded killing one-that pissed me off. I figured it would be fairly safe against the 75mm from a MKIV, but not the higher velocity 75mm of a Panther, but it sounds like it stands a chance against the Panthers cannon.

So far I'm enjoying playing the CW and yes they are starting to grow on me. I hear some of the Italy battles with them "are meant to be experienced" not won or enjoyed. I may have to see for myself soon.

So when is the North Africa/Crete/Malta/Greece module coming out?

[womble]

On the 51mm mortars useful for smoke. I may be missing something...

Yup.

...but when I've used American and German mortars and directly target enemy positions, I can't fire smoke rounds.

In the case of the US 60mm, that's because they don't have smoke rounds, which is a bit of a shame, but they're superb little systems nevertheless. 81mm mortars of both sides, though, have smoke rounds and, at least in the versions I've got, can "Target Smoke" when deployed on-map.

It seems you can only create smoke screens when someone calls in fire...

"Target Smoke" doesn't have the options available to the offmap support assets: you can't drop a line of smoke, or spread it out much past the normal scatter of a direct lay mission. But it's definitely there.

Churchills are pretty tough. So far its shrugged off all the AT rounds from 50mms, but one bounced off its hide and landed near some infantry and exploded killing one-that pissed me off.

Only one? Tha' wer' luckeh...

So when is the North Africa/Crete/Malta/Greece module coming out?

Nobody knows. Not even BFC. I don't think they've even suggested they've started working on it yet, and I'd imagine they'll leverage their NWE developments by finishing up to the end of the war in Italy first.

[Michael Emrys]

So far I'm enjoying playing the CW and yes they are starting to grow on me. I hear some of the Italy battles with them "are meant to be experienced" not won or enjoyed. I may have to see for myself soon.

They should be able to handle Italian troops well enough. You might give that a go.

Michael

[Sublime]

You.re definitely missing something DB. US 60mms, as Womble said, dont get smoke. 81s on all sides do, and the Brit 51mm mortar comes usually with around 9-13 smoke rounds, then 9-13 WP rounds, along with 9-13 HE rounds.

You should check out the Churchill I if you're playing GL - it's got a nice little 40mm 2 lber turret gun, with a hull mounted 75. =D

Like I said the Cromwell has paper thin armor. Just letting ya know...

The Brits DO have tommy guns early in the war, up through the GL expansion. If you're playing BN you wont see them though, you'll see the Stens...

[$Pec5]

I was always upset at the lack of heavy weapons included in British infantry companies. I typically assign bren detachments or 60mm mortars to a squad or two within each platoon to boost their fire power.

Having started playing with the Americans first, it was my way of increasing British infantry's firepower to levels that I'd come to expect.

[SpitfireXI]

I too notice the lack of heavy weapons especially the Vickers guns. I remember in CMBO using these extensively. I was shocked to see them missing entirely in the Scottish Corridor campaign. Does anyone know why these units are missing in the campaign? Also, while we are at it,occasionally CW forces have to take a building but with a lack of SMGs how is this accomplished?

[Field Marshal Blücher]

I too notice the lack of heavy weapons especially the Vickers guns. I remember in CMBO using these extensively. I was shocked to see them missing entirely in the Scottish Corridor campaign. Does anyone know why these units are missing in the campaign?

I can't speak for why they're not in the campaign as I was not involved in the design process for it, but be aware that in the British TO&E the Vickers guns were broken out into separate machine gun battalions. So the only way that the PBI got HMG support was to be lucky enough to get HMGs attached to them from a completely different battalion. Very different approach from how the US and Germans handled their MGs!