Pascucci Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I found them missing from the game and have to say that's a mistake I didn't expect the devs to make. The Italian army continued to exist on both sides of the conflict until the end of the war in some way or form and didn't simply cease exist in September 1943 as so many seem to accept. Fascist Italy continued to exist until 1945 as the RSI in northern Italy and continued to maintain a high quality pro-Axis army which fought actively on the Gothic line, using a mix of the German and Italian equipment, wearing Italian uniforms. They used the same organizational structure as the old Italian army and pretty much would be identical to the Italians already present for Sicily, meaning no work would be involved adding them, yet Italy is locked out as a nation for later battles. Why are they not in? The Italian co-belligerent army in the south, which was royalist in composition and Allied aligned fought very actively against the Germans in Italy and did see much combat on the Gustav line. They would take a tiny bit more work to include, however they simply used British and American uniforms with Italian rank. They would use the weapons of the nation supplying them. I can understand their exclusion to a point because a little work would be required to add them, but they still were a very important entity and it is a shame not to include them. Why are neither present in GL? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Why are neither present in GL? BFC will have to tell you that. But my impression is that neither army was very important in operations. RSI was mainly engaged in chasing partisans, right? And the Co-Beligerant Army seems to have flubbed all its assignments that I am aware of. If you have information to the contrary, I'd be interested to hear it. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascucci Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 BFC will have to tell you that. But my impression is that neither army was very important in operations. RSI was mainly engaged in chasing partisans, right? And the Co-Beligerant Army seems to have flubbed all its assignments that I am aware of. If you have information to the contrary, I'd be interested to hear it. Michael Don't know if you are trolling, but if not I will be happy to go into detail, I am on lunch so I'll just cover the Co-Belligerent for now. The Co-Belligerent army was allowed a 5000 man contingent to fight at Monte Cassino by the Allies, due to a general lack of trust due to the fact they were formerly Axis soldiers and fought very hard there, far exceeding expectations. After Monte-Cassino, it was expanded and fought actively on the Gustav Line, with Commonwealth weapons and equipment. The Italian Nembo paratroopers were considered to be some of the best soldiers in the Italian theater on the Allied side. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Co-Belligerent_Army Flubbed at all its assignments? What resources are you using to research? I'd suggest reading Monte Cassino, 10 Armies in Hell by Peter Caddick as a start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 The Italian Nembo paratroopers were considered to be some of the best soldiers in the Italian theater on the Allied side. You are confused, I think. Anyways, BFC did not make a mistake. They just can't include everything in a single module. Post-surrender Italian units on both sides are probably excellent candidates for future releases. Anyways, with a little Editor-Fu, you can use any of the existing Italian formations on either side at any date. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Why are neither present in GL? Because en masse surrender is not modeled well in CMFI... Only kidding, couldn't resist a little light hearted jab. AKD is probably more on the mark, BF is not yet done with CMFI and GL had reached the limits of what they could stuff into it. Could be a nice option for a pack. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge MC Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 i was asking myself same question about the Italians. will be nice having late Italians looking like this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 JorgeMC, Wow! Where did you get those? Very cool. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascucci Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 OK, sorry about the wait, time for the RSI. The Esercito Nazionale Repubblicano was formed after the foundation of the RSI which followed the Italian 'surrender' in 1943, using volunteers and draftees from both the civilian population and POWs held by the Germans in order to support the German forces. Many of these troops were used against partisans, but the bulk of them were regular line units and fought extremely hard on the Gothic Line and even inside Germany until the end of the war. In fact, they carried out the final successful Axis offensive in Italy, in December 1944: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Garfagnana . Many of the elite units from the former Italian military such as the Alpini, Bersaglieri and Nembo paratroops continued to fight in the ENR and new soldiers were extremely well trained under harsh conditions, which lead to an extremely high quality army. It makes even less sense that they were excluded, simply because regular Italian units in-game with German weapons mixed in would be acceptable stand ins, although you do see more camouflage by 44. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 You do know that the GL module ends in May '44, AND that it isn't intended to be the last module or pack for CMFI, right? Your hissy fit is completely misplaced. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 You do know that the GL module ends in May '44, AND that it isn't intended to be the last module or pack for CMFI, right? Your hissy fit is completely misplaced. Nah, not a hissy fit, but I think a genuine question and it was asked pretty civilly. Granted it is asked with a mis understanding of what BF intends regarding packs etc, but packs have not been clearly defined yet. Besides, it is good info and material to go into one. Hell, he has me looking forward to this as a possibility. And I just got to say I love the look of the last guy about to enter the outhouse. That is an outhouse right? I mean look at his face, he is seriously distracted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascucci Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 You're right on the May 44, I just have Fortress Italy, and the new demo, I wasn't aware that it ended so early, I just checked the quick mission editor and saw they weren't there. Still not backing down if that's what you want, though, but I will shift towards pushing for them to be in the next expansion. It wasn't a hissy fit, I think a few people are just upset that their knowledge of the Italians is dead wrong. No idea why you are being ass to me Jon, I can have opinion differing from yours when it comes to priorities. Honestly, I think the fact that the Italians are pretty damn unique and interesting is a good reason to include them. They would actually be much more playable than those in Sicily and would have access to much more non-Italian support on both sides, making them more playable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Instead of assuming incompetence on the part of the developers, perhaps you could have tried a quick search. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascucci Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 From what I have seen in searches it would appear that the devs either do not know or do not talk about it. If the latter is true, than I am sorry. I am not backing down whether you want me to or not, the old guard mentality here seems to be pretty strong, you do realize being polite to newer players is a good idea, right? I know you live here and own the place, but that is no excuse to be an ass. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 JonS is special, he believes being a horse's posterior to everyone is a sign of mental rigor. Sometimes he is even right about that, but he does it in equal parts because he enjoys being right and because he just enjoys being a horse's posterior. (He will grow on you. Whether it is affectionately or like a fungus remains an open question...) Welcome to the forum ... :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandokan Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Don't get it wrong Pascucci. Actually this forum is one of the best I know. No flames wars, usually no trolling etc. Mh, probably one of the reasons is that the average age of the forumites is around 40 ... Ok, there is some sharp tongued guy, but, at the very end, they are all good natured. About the post 8 sept. Italian forces I expect some good stuff relatively pretty soon. Ah, welcome aboard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Ah, Jason. Dear heart. The only thing you need, to make life complete, is a mirror. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Johnston Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I am not backing down whether you want me to or not, the old guard mentality here seems to be pretty strong, you do realize being polite to newer players is a good idea, right? I know you live here and own the place, but that is no excuse to be an ass. Well said. This place can be reactionary. I think some of it stems from earlier times when there were a lot of 'old' CM fans coming on to rant about how awful 'new' CM is. Some of it was justified - CM:SF has needed heavy patching - some of it still is justified, but a lot of it wasn't and it's probably why some people are excessively defensive against any criticism of CM, even though BF make no claim to perfection. (Their approach is a hard-nosed "we do what we can do, when we want to, if we think it'll sell, and we don't do things if we don't expect a return.") Anyway, WOOHOO! I was sure I'd read on the forum that GL was the last and only planned module for CM:FI and I'm delighted to learn that that's not likely to be the case. I'm also missing the Italians! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Ah yes, the good old persecution complex: poor little old me, not everyone agrees that this momentous issue I raised in apocalyptic tones is a mistake or a bug. This is a public internet forum, nuff said. Within that context, it is one of the milder ones. If you really want to see reactionary, try having a reasoned discussion about flight models on the "Rise of Flight" forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascucci Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Once again, I would still expect everyone to be a bit more polite about, that is all, I was partially wrong, simply pointing out my mistake without being snarky would suffice. I am on the Rise of Flight boards, which are hilarious, but I'd just expect better here, I suppose. I have already admitted to being wrong, let's just end this. Also, there isn't any persecution complex going on, I am more upset that people are being rude to a newer player than people not agreeing with me. Rudeness just doesn't accomplish anything. I honestly don't care if people disagree with me, I will continue to display my opinion regardless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 welcome to the forums, the more the merrier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 JonS - now that's just scary... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Indeed welcome. I have now learned a bit more about the war in Italy and therefore the thread has value for me and perhaps most others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickusty Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Of course, BF has already stated that they won't be implemented. But an interesting read, for those who would like to know a little bit more about the struggle of those who decided to fight alongside the allies against the germans is located HERE. (the page is in italian but it is easily translatable nowadays anyway...). The Battle of Monte Lungo, near Monte Cassino was maybe the real first big engagement of the italian cobelligerant army. A bitter fight there. Not too far from the battlefield there is the place where young men (who did not surrender) died and are now buried. HERE they peacefully lie. Interesting: it looks like someone was making a documentary or a film about it in 2012... More info HERE 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 If you really want to see reactionary, try having a reasoned discussion about flight models on the "Rise of Flight" forum. Ah yes, that's why I have a certain number of people on that forum on Ignore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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