JonS Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 You've heard of the battle. You've probably even seen the documentary of it once or twice. But I bet you've never seen a dissection of the tactics used by both side quite like this 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Brilliant! I loved this bit... once Vader returns to his Star Destroyer, he gets a message from Palpatine explicitly instructing him to prevent Luke from training as a Jedi. Oops! Regards KR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 The thing that always bugged me was that if you've got anti-grav tech, why the frig would you use massive and clumsy quadruped walkers? I mean, nothing is more all terrain than something that can hover over it, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 The thing that always bugged me was that if you've got anti-grav tech, why the frig would you use massive and clumsy quadruped walkers? I mean, nothing is more all terrain than something that can hover over it, right? Stealth, emission-wise? Recently, I saw what must have been the third episode on TV. I guess nobody is going to write a tactical analysis of the stupid RTS style battles there. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 The thing that always bugged me was that if you've got anti-grav tech, why the frig would you use massive and clumsy quadruped walkers? I mean, nothing is more all terrain than something that can hover over it, right? My SWAG is that anti-grav probably has high energy requirements. Much cheaper to use legs. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 My SWAG is that anti-grav probably has high energy requirements. Much cheaper to use legs. Michael Aye, but it's a bit like saying horses are cheaper than tanks. So lets go and cash in all our amroured divisions and give them saddles! I'm not saying there's a logical answer...the AT-ATs are eye candy. But the thing that bugs me so much about the Star Wars universe is those ludicrous inconsistencies in the mil-tech. There are hover tanks in Episode 1, but by Episode 5 we're using dumb walkers that are massively tall and heavy (why?). Or the storm troopers who wear armour that patently does no good whatsoever against even the lightest weaponry of their foes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 lol at the comments on that page. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Or the storm troopers who wear armour that patently does no good whatsoever against even the lightest weaponry of their foes. It's not plate armour - it is an exoskeleton. And we all know that crabs and lobsters can't shoot properly and that explains all you need to know about them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 And that's another thing. Here we have Imperial Sardaukar storm troopers, presumably trained and equipped at great cost, the elite of the Empire, and what do we find? None of them can fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Pathetic! If the Empire was really that degenerate, the rebels never really needed to fight. They could have just sat back and watched it collapse under its own weight. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Haha great article, thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 And that's another thing. Here we have Imperial Sardaukar storm troopers, I thought Sardaukar was Dune??:cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I thought Sardaukar was Dune??:cool: That's where Lucas pinched it (along with one or two other things). Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 "Pinched" as in constricted tightly so as to make them completely useless?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 "Pinched" so as to make Lucas almost completely unoriginal. Personally, I do not want to make a fetish of originality. I think pinching here and there, now and again, is fine as long as you do something interesting with it. Clearly, millions of people feel that Lucas did. That's where I part company with the masses. I groaned all the way through the original Star Wars movie. Not only was it derivative, hackneyed, and trite, it was incredibly lame. I wanted my money back. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 "Pinched" so as to make Lucas almost completely unoriginal. Personally, I do not want to make a fetish of originality. I think pinching here and there, now and again, is fine as long as you do something interesting with it. Clearly, millions of people feel that Lucas did. That's where I part company with the masses. I groaned all the way through the original Star Wars movie. Not only was it derivative, hackneyed, and trite, it was incredibly lame. I wanted my money back. Michael I felt exactly the same when I saw it for the first time. I was 11. Nothing in the intervening time has changed for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 "Pinched" so as to make Lucas almost completely unoriginal. Personally, I do not want to make a fetish of originality. I think pinching here and there, now and again, is fine as long as you do something interesting with it. Clearly, millions of people feel that Lucas did. That's where I part company with the masses. I groaned all the way through the original Star Wars movie. Not only was it derivative, hackneyed, and trite, it was incredibly lame. I wanted my money back. Michael I was under the influence of a particular mind altering substance during Return of the Jedi. I was okay till my buddy mutterd "Sir sir, we're being attacked by muppets!!" I then had to leave the theater stifling my laughter till I was able to exit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 Supplemental analysis here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietrich Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Star Wars: Because it's popular enough that through snidely picking it apart and mocking any and every element thereof, one is therefore proven smarter and cooler than most people.™ Star Wars: Because everyone knows that all the really smart people are Trekkies.™ Star Wars: Because the Episodes I through III happened.™ …ad nauseum. I'd like to see a battle from one of the Star Trek movies subjected to a similar type of "see how ludicrous this is when you really break it down?" treatment. Picking apart a battle from a ~30-year-old space opera (not sci-fi) movie according to 21st-century real-world strategic and tactical theory makes for an interesting read. But if I wanted to read such a breakdown, I'd rather it be of a battle in a movie which at least had pretensions of reflecting reality. The "for being so vaunted, these Stormtroopers kinda suck" thing can be (in a manner of speaking) explained thus: (1a) If they didn't "kinda suck", in A New Hope they would have gunned down or captured any/all of the main characters while they were aboard the Death Star, and then the movie would be over, and there'd be no subsequent movies (with those characters, anyway); (1b) when fighting characters who were not the heroes (and not "Muppets"), they demonstrated combat effectiveness of a degree more or less realistically superior to those of their opponents; (2) it's a space opera, not a sci-fi military-action movie—clearly it wasn't written with thoroughly realistic technology and tactics in mind. That said, I'd certainly be interested in a Star Wars story/novel that depicted Rebel and Imperial military forces using good tactics and so on—and I surmise there are some such stories/novels; I just can't recall any specific examples at the moment. Reckon it's time to re-read Timothy Zahn's Star Wars novels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Actually I think the military analysis is valid from any period - check out what happened at the battle of Cannae in 216 BC..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 27, 2013 Author Share Posted February 27, 2013 I'd certainly be interested in a Star Wars story/novel that depicted Rebel and Imperial military forces using good tactics and so on—and I surmise there are some such stories/novels; I just can't recall any specific examples Yeah, that's kinda the point. The Battle of Hoth could have been constructed using plausible, non-idiotic, sound tactics (for both sides). But it wasn't. Hence: mockery. Also, it doesn't mean anything, so it's kinda fun and non-controversial to talk about. And kinda interesting to try and apply real-world principles, and see what falls out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Actually my objection to Star Wars is it is tripe. I LOVE sci fi, it is my first love to read even over military history. No really. The caveat is I like to read (or watch) good sci fi. CJ Cherryh for example sets plausible military scenarios with a much better tactical sense (Downbelow Station being a classic one). Gravity wells, maneuver in space, the issues of speed of light and detection of an incoming threat in time to react, vectoring of mass etc etc Much more plausible and far more consistent. Yeah I get Star Wars is for a particular audience, but that doesn't make it any better writing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Actually my objection to Star Wars is it is tripe. That's it in a nutshell. Nothing more needs to be said, really. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 And that's another thing. Here we have Imperial Sardaukar storm troopers, presumably trained and equipped at great cost, the elite of the Empire, and what do we find? None of them can fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Pathetic! If the Empire was really that degenerate, the rebels never really needed to fight. They could have just sat back and watched it collapse under its own weight. Michael That is what you get when you order from the lowest bidder who also spends the most to grease up the system. Couple that with the leaders obsession to regard tech as irrelevant to the power of the "force" masters of which are to be counted with fingers of one hand. Which is kind of realistic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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