Buddy aid/weapon exchange

[Erwin]

"the game is too generous right now with how much ammo a player can acquire" Agreed.

It's also a completely different issue with RT players who can pause every second and thus resupply a company from the same truck in the time it takes WEGO players to load a guy. That's why I don't understand why we're talking about "how long it would take in RL" (which I agree with btw).

In GAME terms it is a PITA to have a whole bunch of inf who has just run in from the front line sitting around a supply vehicle waiting for each unit to load, acquire and disembark before the next can do so as if there was a quartermaster in there making them sign in triplicate for the ammo. (Oh wait... that sounds really granular.)

Secondly, it just doesn't seem right that you can load 5K+ rounds on one or two men and have them run back with no/very little noticeable tiring effects. At the very least they could be restricted to walking/MOVE.

I like the idea of restricting ammo loads to a max 500 rounds (or less) per man - perhaps a lot less if they are also carrying other heavy gear, satchel charges, AT weapons etc.

Right now, it's a waste of time having supply vehicles at a scenario start if all we do is spend ten minutes loading the troops with max ammo. May as well have the troops start that way in the editor.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I like the idea of restricting ammo loads to a max 500 rounds (or less) per man - perhaps a lot less if they are also carrying other heavy gear, satchel charges, AT weapons etc.

I can see issues with that. 500 rounds of 12.7×99mm weighs a lot more than 500 rounds of 7.62×63mm which weighs a lot more than 500 rounds of 5.56×45mm.

[Erwin]

Well, conversely right now you can load up on all calibers - I never recall reaching a limit of how much ammo one guy can carry. Is there any? At least setting some sort of limit would help the situation and make resupply a more realistic part of the game.

[womble]

Well, conversely right now you can load up on all calibers - I never recall reaching a limit of how much ammo one guy can carry. Is there any? At least setting some sort of limit would help the situation and make resupply a more realistic part of the game.

Yes, there's a limit. I have had troops unable to pick up any more ammo using "Acquire", when the truck has had more to loot. And as Mr Emrys has said, your overloaded troops will tire more rapidly and recover more slowly. Not having a low "hard limit" is a Good Thing.

AIUI, even if you split off a scout team and exhaust them getting ammo back to the Squad, and when they rejoin the Squad, there's no noticeable effect on its fatigue level, the two Scout team troopers will still be Exhausted and only able to move at Normal (or Slow), so your Squad will mostly move between Waypoints at their best speed (Quick, say), but they'll have to wait til the Normal moving pTruppen catch up before heading to the next waypoint.

[JonS]

It's also a completely different issue with RT players who can pause every second and thus resupply a company from the same truck in the time it takes WEGO players to load a guy.

In a very limited sense, that's true, however it completely overlooks the not-so-minor point that while RTers are carefully shuttling their squads thorough the truck in the most time-efficient way you could imagine, they're completly ignoring the rest of the battle.

Unless they use the pause button every second. But, meh. Realtime Pause Monkeys are a blight of the universe. RPMs aren't are good reason to lobotomise the rest of the game.

[poesel]

Acquire works for me as is most of the time. This 'one man out at the end of the turn' is mostly annoying when you want to drive away the jeep and now you have your guys sitting there for a minute...

Still - what I would like to see is that you don't need to mount the vehicle with the whole troop. That wouldn't happen in RL either. Acquire should be a ranged waypoint command which works in the AS of the vehicle. You request the ammo as its is currently but don't get it all at once. Instead you will get a number each, say, 10 seconds. If you have set another waypoint the troops will go there when they have their ammo. If you decide you need them elsewhere NOW you can delete the acquire command and proceed with the ammo you got so far. Driving away the vehicle would also cancel acquire.

This way we can have realistic supply speeds without blocking the unit by turns and don't need to enter the vehicles.

[Baneman]

Acquire should be a ranged waypoint command which works in the AS of the vehicle. You request the ammo as its is currently but don't get it all at once. Instead you will get a number each, say, 10 seconds. If you have set another waypoint the troops will go there when they have their ammo. If you decide you need them elsewhere NOW you can delete the acquire command and proceed with the ammo you got so far. Driving away the vehicle would also cancel acquire.

This way we can have realistic supply speeds without blocking the unit by turns and don't need to enter the vehicles.

That's a damn good idea.

[noxnoctum]

I do kinda wish you could pick up weapons off dead team members immediately.

I agree with JonS though that reloading is fine. Yes it's annoying to have to get in the truck and then disembark (minimum of 2 turns, usually 3), but it's more realistic than instagrabbing ammo. Poesel's suggestion is even better though if that could get coded.

On the other hand I do wish soldiers would pick up weapons off dead friendlies much quicker. Maybe have it separate from buddy aid? Anyways, it's not a huge deal.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I just wish my guys wouldn't exchange their SMGs for rifles unless they are out of ammo. I find SMGs generally more useful, which requires me to be careful no to park any teams with SMGs in the same action spot with a casualty.

[JonS]

I just wish my guys wouldn't exchange their SMGs for rifles unless they are out of ammo. I find SMGs generally more useful, which requires me to be careful no to park any teams with SMGs in the same action spot with a casualty.

Eh? I don't think I've ever seen that ... except for maybe preferentuially picking up a scoped rifle or one with a grenade launcher. There've been various proiority lists that people have worked out, and as I recall, SMGs are always rated higher than rifles.

(Which can be annoying in the case of MP-44s. Discarding a rifle with essentially unlimited ammo for an MP44 with ~20 rounds isn't a great idea)

[Vanir Ausf B]

Well then I will try to remember to move a team with SMGs into an action point with casualties and see what happens, because I'm pretty sure I've seen them swap with a rifle before.

EDIT: Ok, I did some searching around old posts and it does appear that SMGs will not be swapped for rifles. But on the other hand rifles will also not be swapped for a fallen SMG.

[JonS]

EDIT: rifles will ... not be swapped for a fallen SMG.

Eh? I'm pretty sure they will be?

[noxnoctum]

They definitely will, unless something's changed from CMBN.

[Vanir Ausf B]

If they do that is good news, but that would mean it's been changed at some point from how it used to be.

[Michael Emrys]

Airborne in Vietnam dropped in off their choppers with 600 rounds as a combat load. M14 rounds, IIRC.

Are you sure about M14? Seems to me more likely to be M16s.

2 Para hiked across the peat bogs of the Falklands with half their own bodyweight on their backs.

On the other hand, the Paras and the Commandos on the Falklands were far more fit than your average WW II conscript.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Michael,

I have tested this extensively back in CMSF. There is a huge penalty to overloaded troops. All troops will FAST or QUICK. The penalty is realized by shortening the amount of time an overloaded unit can move at those speeds. Additionally, their recovery time from their fatigue state is MUCH longer.

Burdening the troops burns them out.

I've done -some- testing in CMBN for this behavior (nowhere near as extensively tested as I did in CMSF). It appears that the behavior from CMSF vis a vis burdened troops is modeled in CMBN.

Thanks for the info, Ken. I must have missed that. Personally, I'd expect them to tire a little more quickly using Move as well, though the difference might not be as striking.

Michael

[womble]

Eh? I'm pretty sure they will be?

I've never seen it happen, not even bolt action rifles.

[Erwin]

In CMBN I would ALWAYS administer buddy aid and was careful to use units that only had rifles as they would usually acquire a SMG or LMG. I haven't noticed it as much in CMFI, but no reason why that would have changed.

[Baneman]

I've definitely seen LMG's acquired through Buddy-Aid in FI.

Haven't had any SMG incidents to judge by though.

[womble]

I've definitely seen LMG's acquired through Buddy-Aid in FI.

Haven't had any SMG incidents to judge by though.

Oh, LMGs are almost always picked up by units that don't have any. I've had teams with 3 guys, all with MG42s. But I've never seen an SMG picked up by a team where everyone had a rifle.

[eltorrente]

Oh, LMGs are almost always picked up by units that don't have any. I've had teams with 3 guys, all with MG42s. But I've never seen an SMG picked up by a team where everyone had a rifle.

That's been my experience, too. Having 2 or 3 MGs on one 3 man squad is pretty awesome..

I wish the guy who acts as medic was prioritized in some way. If someone is holding a pistol, I want him to be the medic and scrounge for a better weapon. ANY weapon.

[womble]

That's been my experience, too. Having 2 or 3 MGs on one 3 man squad is pretty awesome..

I wish the guy who acts as medic was prioritized in some way. If someone is holding a pistol, I want him to be the medic and scrounge for a better weapon. ANY weapon.

Yeah. Or the weapon gets handed over to the guy who's only got a pistol, regardless of who did the Buddy Aid.

There might be some exceptions where the guy with the pistol is too busy doing other stuff to be beothered with a rifle. I'm thinking of the assistant gunner in German squads in FI, as a prime example. They were only issued with a pistol because they would either be feeding the MG (clearing a jam, or prepping the next belt and the like), or taking over from their fallen gunner mate. Dynamic priority lists (Mortar's out of ammo; grab a rifle) would probably be more trouble to implement than a user-managed distribution...

[wozpower]

I just wish my guys wouldn't exchange their SMGs for rifles unless they are out of ammo. I find SMGs generally more useful, which requires me to be careful no to park any teams with SMGs in the same action spot with a casualty.

This is my biggest grip! More control over the gathering of weapons and distribution to squad members for us gamers would be fantastic. As I proposed earlier; Any squad within range of a body/ bodies could pick up weapons, ammo, and grenades by the use of the Acquire key which would pop-up the drop down menu (just like the acquisition of ammo from vehicles) with what’s available on the dead or wounded soldiers. Grenades and munitions will drop straight into the squads profile but when a weapon is selected from the menu players will then choose which squad or team member gets the weapon by clicking their weapon icon in the GUI.

Currently squads will pick up weapons, ammo, and grenades but don’t have the ability to share weapons. An example of how this new use would work; when a squad or team loses a soldier with a high value weapon but can’t stop to pick it up due to the pending action. Another squad could pick-up the weapon and return it to the original squad/ team later.

Currently sharing ammo works when squads or teams are close to each other but if they get separated so does the ammo supply, consequently if a player was able to retrieve munitions (increments of 50 rounds) from another squad they could fight in separate locations.

[Michael Emrys]

This is my biggest grip! More control over the gathering of weapons and distribution to squad members for us gamers would be fantastic. As I proposed earlier; Any squad within range of a body/ bodies could pick up weapons, ammo, and grenades by the use of the Acquire key which would pop-up the drop down menu (just like the acquisition of ammo from vehicles) with what’s available on the dead or wounded soldiers. Grenades and munitions will drop straight into the squads profile but when a weapon is selected from the menu players will then choose which squad or team member gets the weapon by clicking their weapon icon in the GUI.

Currently squads will pick up weapons, ammo, and grenades but don’t have the ability to share weapons. An example of how this new use would work; when a squad or team loses a soldier with a high value weapon but can’t stop to pick it up due to the pending action. Another squad could pick-up the weapon and return it to the original squad/ team later.

Currently sharing ammo works when squads or teams are close to each other but if they get separated so does the ammo supply, consequently if a player was able to retrieve munitions (increments of 50 rounds) from another squad they could fight in separate locations.

+1. I like this. Hope it can be done without an excess of effort.

Michael

[Bartokomus]

^^^

To the OP, as pointed out, there exists a possibility that the weapons are damaged, unrecoverable, or simply not chosen. I could post a number of reasons why this would be so, but it would be a waste of time.

Try a test: kill a squad with a sniper, then try to pick up weapons. Next, restart, but kill the squad with mortars or other HE, then try to pick up weapons. (Use a vehicle crew, out of small arms ammo, as a picker-upper.) Repeat the test 10 times (at least) for each type of dead squad. Let us know if there is a correlation between type of death and weapon availability.

Next, try different terrain. Kill a squad with a sniper in open ground. Then kill a squad with a sniper in marsh. Did the same # of weapons, on average, get recovered? Etc.

This is complex. A one-off, "hey, I coudn't get the cool stuff" instance is nearly meaningless.

But, yeah, I feel your pain.

Ken

This is consistent; i don't post over one offs to be honest. I play about a dozen games of PBEM at a time, and my own single player QBs and the behaviour doesn't vary. MP40/MG42/Kar98 will get left by a man delivering buddy aid, but one comment i would make is that this seems to be a bigger issue with CMFI than CMBN.