CM1fan Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Why is a weapons platoon leader with a radio out of contact with his own platoon's mortars when the company first sergeant, also with a radio, is within 20 meters of all the weapons platoon mortars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreck Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Because that's the way they implemented it. Command and control flows only via HQ units, and radios are not shared by units. Vehicles do share their radio, so if you have a jeep w/radio, put it near the mortars and you are good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM1fan Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Because that's the way they implemented it. Command and control flows only via HQ units, and radios are not shared by units. Vehicles do share their radio, so if you have a jeep w/radio, put it near the mortars and you are good. So who can the company first sergeant talk to with his radio? What's his radio for if the information passing through it can't be used? Forward observers aren't HQ units, but I hope they can control indirect fire. (Please tell me they can!!!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I agree with CM2fan's assessment that the 1st sergeant's radio should be able to provide the C&C between the mortars and the HQ. That was their job for Christ's sake! I've had relatively good success when using two HQs to do the job but I can't remember if one of them was the first sergeant or not. How far apart is the HQ from the first sergeant? Some of those radios are limited in distance. Also, make sure your units are not moving. Units cannot use radios when on the move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM1fan Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 I agree with CM1fan's assessment that the 1st sergeant's radio should be able to provide the C&C between the mortars and the HQ. That was their job for Christ's sake! I've had relatively good success when using two HQs to do the job but I can't remember if one of them was the first sergeant or not. How far apart is the HQ from the first sergeant? Some of those radios are limited in distance. Also, make sure your units are not moving. Units cannot use radios when on the move. I'm not sure which HQs you're asking about. The weapons platoon HQ (with a radio) is around 200 m from the weapons platoon's mortars near (within 25 m) the first sergeant. The company HQ is around 200 m from the first sergeant and maybe 320 m from the weapons platoon HQ. Only the weapons platoon HQ is moving, trying to find a position from which he can call down fire on the Krauts. I just went back to the scenario in which I'm in the orders phase. I cancelled the movement orders for the now stopped weapons platoon HQ and then checked the status of the HQ's available artillery. It still shows three mortars, all out of contact. Even after adding 90 seconds of pause to the HQ, the mortars are out of contact. I could understand some delay after stopping movement to twiddle radio dials and then establish contact with "Pooh. This is Tigger. Over." But that should show in delaying the artillery delivery, not in the "Out of contact" status of the mortars. Could this be a "realistic" radio failure that probably wouldn't happen if I ran the scenario again? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Could this be a "realistic" radio failure that probably wouldn't happen if I ran the scenario again? It seems so. Check out this thread which is about the same issue. The last post by akd says it's just random. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM1fan Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thanks for all the info everyone. I guess I'll have to hide the weapons platoon leader for a few turns and keep checking his supporting artillery tab until "out of contact" on each of the mortars disappears. Realistic radio performance is better than a company first sergeant whose radio has no value at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I reckon there are random bugs afoot on this one Normally all this radio contact stuff works fine but surely we've all had experience of completely inexplicable "out of contact" status. And inexplicable breakdowns in C2. In both cases they remain unresolved for whole scenarios on occasion. As far as I can tell both these phenomena occur when radios are involved. I'm completely happy with the malfunctioning radio explanation if anybody from BFC would confirm that this is something they have featured. However, I don't think anyone has. It only seems to be something that gets mentioned whenever there are C2/out of contact issues raised on these boards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 XO units (and yes I know it is platoon sergeant in this case, but I am referring to function) don't have a C2 function unless their HQ is destroyed, but if that does happen it is handy for them to have a radio. On-map indirect assets have three options for being "in contact": 1. In C2 up their own chain of command to an HQ with a radio (in most cases this is their platoon HQ). 2. Adjacent to a stationary radio-equipped vehicle (these are the only radios they get to "borrow"). 3. Within voice range of the currently selected spotter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I sure do hope the HQ Support units gain the ability to provide radio C2 to on-map mortars. It would greatly increase their functionality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm completely happy with the malfunctioning radio explanation if anybody from BFC would confirm that this is something they have featured. However, I don't think anyone has. It only seems to be something that gets mentioned whenever there are C2/out of contact issues raised on these boards. It was 100% confirmed by battlefront in the beta forums that a radio link can fail for a few turns. Of course there is absolutely no UI to help you and nothing mentioned in the manual about this, but unfortunately that shouldn't surprise anyone . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM1fan Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 I've accepted that the company first sergeant's radio is useless or will be useless until the company commander is killed or the CO's radio is destroyed. I've accepted that vehicle radios can pass fire commands to mortars near the vehicle. Now how do I move a radio equipped jeep back to the mortars? I've a radio equipped jeep lugging around a machine gun team. I want to keep the MG team where it is and just send the jeep back to the mortar position. But when I dismount the MG team, the jeep is empty. From this I deduce that one of the MG team members was driving the jeep. (And I further deduce that another member of the team must have been operating the radio.) There's a two-man MG ammo bearer team I've kept near the jeep. At least one of them should have a driver's license, but it doesn't matter because the team won't get into the jeep. Evidently, only the unit originally assigned to a vehicle may drive the vehicle, use its radio, and use any weapon in the vehicle. [A jeep carrying an MG team and a radio is different from a tank carrying an MG and a radio, but I guess CM:BN must place similar restrictions on all vehicles.] If the vehicle holds ammo useful for weapons it isn't carrying, the entire unit assigned to the vehicle must dismount; the unit wanting that ammo must mount the vehicle, acquire that ammo, and dismount; and the originally assigned unit must mount again -- or abandon the vehicle's radio and everything else in it. I'm getting the distinct impression that the only way I can use a radio equipped vehicle to pass targeting information to my mortars is by keeping everyone originally assigned to the vehicle inside the vehicle. And keeping that vehicle and its weapons out of the fight -- at least until the mortar ammo is used up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I don't recall having any problems getting any team into any Jeep so long as it's not larger than available capacity. However, I wonder if what the team is carrying also counts against capacity. I do recall having a problem boarding trucks with a full load of 2+ teams if they were also carrying a lot of ammo and AT weapons even though the head count was within the truck's capacity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM1fan Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 I don't recall having any problems getting any team into any Jeep so long as it's not larger than available capacity. However, I wonder if what the team is carrying also counts against capacity. I do recall having a problem boarding trucks with a full load of 2+ teams if they were also carrying a lot of ammo and AT weapons even though the head count was within the truck's capacity. I believe a truck comes with a driver. The jeep doesn't seem to come with a driver, so its driver must be a member of the team using the jeep. Once the team is married to the jeep, I think its relationship to the jeep is the same as a tank crew's relationship to the tank. No other team / crew can use the vehicle. And if the vehicle also has a radio, no other team / crew can use the radio. If my analysis is correct, it would explain my difficulties getting a vehicle with a radio back to my mortars. It also makes the jeep fairly useless in carrying ammo for other units and their weapons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you just order a jeep on the QB acquisition pane, it comes with a single driver and you can put up to four more men into it. Or you can dismount the driver and put a five man team into it. I don't believe you can get a radio that way though, unless the team has its own. It does come with some spare ammo. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM1fan Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you just order a jeep on the QB acquisition pane, it comes with a single driver and you can put up to four more men into it. Or you can dismount the driver and put a five man team into it. I don't believe you can get a radio that way though, unless the team has its own. It does come with some spare ammo. Michael The jeeps in question were in the US order of battle for a scenario, and they came with MG teams, a radio, and extra ammo for others. I believe CM:BN is now treating the ensemble as a crewed vehicle, and I'm having nothing but problems using it. One jeep is carrying eight bazooka rounds. In real life, a man from a bazooka team would come up to the vehicle, and say, "Gimme four bazooka rounds, buddy." A guy in the jeep would say, "Here you go, mac." and hand over four rounds. Total elapsed time 10 or 15 seconds. In CM:BN, I now expect the transaction to take two or three minutes, as the MG team dismounts, the bazooka team mounts / acquires 4 bazooka rounds / dismounts, and the MG team remounts the jeep. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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