ncc1701e
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Posts posted by ncc1701e
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2 hours ago, Erwin said:
Was hoping that the latest engine bugs we found when testing TOC would be fixed by now. But, have noticed that the arty spotting bug seems to be still there in the demo.
Sorry, is there somewhere a list of known engine bugs available to public?
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3 hours ago, MikeyD said:
I had tested out various IEDs under ECM conditions awhile ago and ECM does work. It doesn't work for IED 'mines' or 'wire' IEDs, though, so you're not entirely out of the woods. ECM, though, is set in QBs up front in the common force select window so both sides know there's going to be jamming. So you're unlikely to find an opponent buying radio IEDs when he knows he's going to be jammed.
Makes sense, thank you. At least, one could try with a LIGHT setting.
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One thing I have not understood. Does the current CMSF2 demo contain this fix ?
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54 minutes ago, General Jack Ripper said:
Yes, because the unit doesn't "know" that you're going to blow up that wall. I think people think the TacAI is smarter than it is, to their detriment.
In fact, I discovered this by chance. A team has destroyed a wall using a demolition charge. The squad that was just behind and that could see the wall has started moving about 10 seconds before the explosion. So, instead of using the breach in the wall, the squad went around it to be catch by enemy fire.
WTF I said
and I try to understand the problem. Next time, pause and patience. Patience is my problem you know.
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MINUTE 14
Mortar fires continue in the woods but there is nobody left.
By anticipation, I have fallback the remaining troops just in time to prepare the other progression axis.
My Scout team is back. Next turn, I will use HUNT command to search for the enemy. Something I have not done well until now...
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On 10/27/2018 at 11:31 AM, ncc1701e said:
But, thank you, you gave me the idea of a new test. What if this squad had the knowledge of a spotted enemy unit on its right (North), will it try the same flanking move to enter in this house? Back to the tests...
All right, I have added one enemy unit on the North of the squad location. The enemy unit is well spotted by the squad at the beginning of its turn. Still, the squad is doing its suicidal flanking maneuver like if it is ignoring this unit or has no knowledge of this threat. This is reproducible but TacAI can not think for you after all. I will stop there since anyway I have not the patch for the Indirect Fire bug. I will let @IanL try my first test scenario.
5 hours ago, General Jack Ripper said:All I meant was trying to pack a full squad through a small gap always leads to trouble.
Not only, use waypoints far from each other is also a source of problem for TacAI. I have find that if a team has started moving, it ignores breaches done in walls during its movement. Doing small intervals between waypoints is the way to go.
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MINUTE 13
I am not sure but, on the right, I may have a good location for watching the village. I am sending my Scout team there.
I have lot of difficulties to find a good way to enter this village. Moving here (below screenshot), I might be protected from the fires from the leftmost woods. But, there are still these houses in front of us. I suppose the LMG team could go at the same spot than the Scout team to suppress those houses if, with our ROE, the LMG team still hear the enemy.
What is important guys, even if the situation is not really good for me, I am having fun. For a game, this is essential.
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MINUTE 12
Mortar fires are incoming at the edge of the village. I did not even get there...
I rally my troops and let them rest.
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8 hours ago, domfluff said:
Going to ground under mg fire in the middle of an open street, when there's a perfectly servicable building right in front of you (that you've been ordered to reach) seems inadvised.
Combat Mission in general is a lot about understanding and anticipating the consequences of your orders - in general, the low-level ai is really pretty great, but that won't stop you ordering them to do suicidal things.
Agree, I have just forgotten too many basic rules here.
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MINUTE 11
While retreating, I am detecting some British troops that are moving on the left in the woods. May be this is an attempt to go on my left flank. I will have to monitor this.
Fortunately for me, my faithful LMG team is covering my retreat.
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3 hours ago, Erwin said:
I did say MAY fire back.
Yes may... Lesson learned.
3 hours ago, Oliver_88 said:I believe that a unit using the MOVE command when shot changes their waypoint into the QUICK command instead. So again no they are not going to go to ground when shot at. Unless that incoming fire is enough to pin them.
Even if shots are coming? Imagine that you are moving in the direction of the shots. In real life, I guess I'll go onto the ground instead of running to the enemy.
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2 hours ago, domfluff said:
In a general sense, you don't want to ever be moving whilst under fire. When advancing towards suspected contact, I'll generally use Move, Hunt and Slow, depending on the terrain (Move across open terrain, Hunt in close terrain or likely contact, Slow to crest ridges, etc.
Will the guys hit the ground if they are shot at using the MOVE command?
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MINUTE 10
Once again my impatient has killed me. That is not the first time... My green troops are in panic.
I will try to reorganize with the armored car reinforcement.
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7 hours ago, Dynaman216 said:
The WinSP game series does the route toward friendly map edge and it is not a solution. It is worst in scenarios where you have units on two sides of the map for a rescue type situation but it pops up often in straight up fights too - units routing into the enemy that got around them. The routing from known contacts may work. Or not routing toward a known contact ever, surrendering if out in the open with no way to rout without breaking that rule.
Indeed, we need something a little more advanced for these corner cases. @Bulletpoint proposal of "Making the troops flee in the direction with least known enemy contacts" is the best option. But, is it not too much data for the engine to handle?
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8 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:
Very simple: By making the game check that it makes the flee move order towards the friendly map edge. Or, a bit more advanced: By making the troops flee in the direction with least known enemy contacts (maybe even weighted by distance, type, and how recent they are).
And while they're at it: By making the game check that there's good or at least decent cover at the destination. I've just witnessed my assault troops run out of a church, towards enemy lines, and into a graveyard completely devoid of cover. In effect digging their own graves.
These are very good suggestions.
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Very nice, thanks Bil !
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9 minutes ago, Erwin said:
Correct. Units on QUICK may stop and fire their weapons if the have a suitable target. AT teams will do this is they see armor at effective AT range. (It is fun to watch an AT team on QUICK, suddenly spot a tank, stop and kill it, then carry on to their waypoint.)
But, in my case, the squad did not stop to fire back despite I remember they had more than a sound contact at a given time during this turn.
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MINUTE 9
Disaster in the center... My LMG team is firing at the sound contact to protect my men.
But my scout team is pinned few seconds after the start of the turn.
As a consequence, it did not launch any smoke grenade. One more casualty taken... Snifff
But, I had a little revenge. The rate of fire of the MG42 is astonishing.
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MINUTE 8
The HQ team is on the move, protected by the smoke.
I have used the QUICK command for my squad to reach the position of the Scout team. And, obviously, it was a mistake since gunfire can be heard (first below screenshot) and seen (second below screenshot)
One guy is touched by a bullet. And, of course, this is the MG42 guy. Come on... But, quick question, I have used QUICK not FAST. Are not the guys supposed to hit the ground when being shot at with QUICK command? ASSAULT is using FAST command, according to manual, so I was not thinking it was a good choice. HUNT was the only option, right? But, HUNT is so slow... I am still too impatient...
At the end of the turn, as @Erwin pointed out, I have a sound contact of something in the village behind the first house.
My orders for next turn are as follow:
- The Scout team is targeting briefly the soldiers in the woods on the left.
- Then, the Scout team is ordered to launch a smoke grenade for covering my guys.
- The LMG team is doing an area fire on the sound contact he has of the soldiers in the woods on the left.
- The two teams are doing an area fire on the sound contact in the village, ready to fallback if needed.
We are always learning from our mistakes, right?
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17 minutes ago, Erwin said:
Highly recommend that you get LOS all around buildings to ensure your oppo is not using this very effective ambush tactic.
He is
. Just finishing my replay... I am joking with @JoMc67 privately that, next time, he should give me a tank as a backup. But, I will not surrender so easily (I have seen the "Lone Survivor" movie from Peter Berg yesterday night).
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MINUTE 7
The HQ team launches one smoke grenade for diversion as planned.
My scout team is very closed from the first houses now. There is still no sign of the enemy. Their firing arcs should be set for short ranges.
Regarding the right flank, I know this is an unexplored zone but I have not enough troops to cover this. Also, if I was not on the edge of the map, on the left side, the exact same problem is existing. What is sure is that continuing on the left edge of the map, I am entering in a potential kill zone.
A second squad is arriving in my setup zone for the attack. Hope the enemy does not have some mortars...
With the smoke screen now active, the leftmost squad plus the HQ team is shifting position and are going on the right. I hope that my smoke screen will attract some enemy troops and that I could learn more about the enemy.
Oh yes, and I forgot to mention that in the above green circle, my LMG team is watching and covering the woods on the left of the village.
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50 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:
Sorry for derailing this thread, please carry on with the AAR.
No worries, all of what is said here is interesting.
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14 hours ago, domfluff said:
- Is the right flank secure? From the overhead shot, it looks like the rightmost unit is not in any form of cover or concealment, so it would only take one LMG on the other side to ruin your day.
Yes, due to our house rules, I would like to provoke a little bit. If he fires at me, the other team of this squad is there to hit back.
Quote- How much do you know about the enemy? The "1:1 ratio" comment implies that tou're working on the assumption that he has a full platoon in the objective. Whilst I think that's a plausible scenario, it's far from the only one - and it's probably worth learning more about the enemy before an assault is planned. "Probing attack" is certainly a sensible idea, but I'd be worried about deciding to concentrate forces in this way, without having an idea where the enemy is.
This is my main problem. Despite this sound contact, I know almost nothing about him. The "1:1 ratio" is indeed an assumption. But, this is also the worst case possible. I prefer to expect the worst than to count on luck. I am concentrating also to have a local fire superiority. From what I have read, I will need fire superiority anyway if I need to fallback in the best possible conditions.
Quote- Smoke is valuable, but popping it as a distraction isn't silly. One concern is what reaction you're trying to provoke - if there are enemy in the leftmost woods, then speculative firing into the smoke seems likely (but doesn't this run against the ROE here?) - do the likely incoming fires actually hurt you more than help you? It certainly reveals that there's more than just a single squad there (assuming he has similar sound contacts to you).
You are right with our ROE. But, I would like him to move troops thinking an attack will come from this location. Movements that I hope to see.
Quote- I'm a little concerned about lines of fire here. If you're moving the central squad, can the leftmost squad cover the right squad's advance to the target? The middle squad looks (from here) better placed to do that, to me.
The squad on the left is moving next turn.
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10 hours ago, General Jack Ripper said:
This is why I always split my squads into teams, especially in tight spaces.
Well, the flanking move is risky because it is done on the enemy side. If an enemy is there hidden, that is three dead. But, the TacAI behavior is the same whatever the Friendly side parameter is. What is more surprising is the soldier fleeing in the wrong direction.
But, thank you, you gave me the idea of a new test. What if this squad had the knowledge of a spotted enemy unit on its right (North), will it try the same flanking move to enter in this house? Back to the tests...
Concerned over rare pathfinding problems in SF2 demo
in Combat Mission Shock Force 2
Posted · Edited by ncc1701e
I see nothing wrong in what you are saying and I do not know how TacAI is programmed to determine the nearest cover. If a team does not know the location of an enemy unit, it can act as if there were no enemy units in one place. It is logical.
It is just that if an unit is fleeing, self-preservation would be to fallback into friendly lines. Not going forward into the enemy lines to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations. At the beginning of the episode, the security guard is always killed anyway...
Seriously, the origin of this thread is that unit sometimes flees in the direction of the enemy lines despite the value of the "Friendly Direction" parameter.
But, this is a simplistic view. Friendly line direction can perfectly be wrong for a fallback. I have realized that.
This is surely a more complex algorithm based on these three basic questions:
An algorithm such as:
I am sure the devs will find out.