Thewood1

For God's sake, no one has even seen it yet...

This is you quote I was referring to... "that is "a bit" nerfed compared to real life performance claims" ...buddy. I was just curious, but feel free to be all dick about it if you like

I'm nat saying use the BMP-2M. I am just pointing out differences in optics and spotting abilities.

Are those claims in combat or training field?

Another supposed to be and might be.

The gunners optics has a very narrow field of view. That kills for spotting abilities and rightly so. Think about all the disadvantages 2-man turrets have in other CM games. Go play steel beasts and try to use the gunner sight for spotting. It is not easy. Switch to thermal commander system and its a world of difference. I think the BMP-2M actually has the full 360 deg. CITV system and can outperform the BMP-3M in spotting. I might be confusing the -3 with the 3M though. As to weapon choice, it seems very spotty. I get AT-10 sometimes and 30mm sometimes. I think that is already on the docket for the next patch.

There is no rocket science to the spotting times...Its all about having a commander in the BMP2 or 3. There was testing done on this already. If you don't load an infantry unit in the BMP, you are comparing apples and oranges to some extent.

I have found the 30mm to better at sub-1000 ranges. It can reliably kill the BMP3, It also depends on the M2 having APS or not.

OK, I made a mistake in my test. I left the infantry at Veteran and +1 leadership for the Russians. When I evened everything out, it took 20-40 sec to spot the M2 and the BMP3 fired the AT-10 first and then fired a few bursts of 30mm. So leadership and experience have an impact on what weapon to employ.

Ran a couple firing tests and the BMP3M fired its 30mm every single time at 1000m. Only ran three tests though.

Just ran a test at 1000m... BMP3M got an ID in 10 sec from start. M2 got a ? at 8 sec and a solid at 14 sec. I have run it a few times and there are huge swings in variability in the spotting. The difference in my test is that I had spotters loaded in each IFV. The BMP3 with a two man crew is at a big disadvantage to the M2 with a three man crew. Load a an infantry unit in the BMP3 and the leader of the infantry unit becomes the commander of the IFV and uses the optics at that station. There is whole thread on this issue down further, but, more related to the BMP2M.

Wait...What! Really? This is the first I have heard of this. I know there aren't hard spotting numbers you can compare to, but what exactly does this mean? Is it 10% harder, 20% harder, etc.?

Locking is too good for this thread. It should be hung from a light pole in the main forum square as an example to other threads how things can end if they aren't careful.

And that is why saves are important.

Russians are importing a significant amount of technology so any shift in Russian currency compared to others is going to have a serious impact. Cash comes in to spend on budgets from a lot of energy selling. When energy sales lose 1/3 of their value, something has to give. You can make up some of that in the short term, but not if it doesn't recover in the long term. Just look at the article I posted previously. The impact is already being felt...Armata cut back T-50 cut back, and I am sure there is more.

I find it odd that there arguments going on for a tank that no one has any real confirmed sighting on. Its sources quoting sources quoting sources. Throw in a couple very fuzzy pictures. btw, back to my Armata in the parade question. That parade looked over. There was nothing else coming down the road. If the Armata was in that practice, I would think it would have been with the other tanks.

So, I am curious and no one seemed to answer my first question. Where was the Armata in that video. Did I just not recognize it?

You have three people who can operate the gun in an M1 turret. Only two in a T-90/72. Knock out two people in each turret and see who can still fire.

I remember someone doing a pretty extensive test and on it and it surprised everyone.

Where was the Armata? Did I miss it?

I'm sorry, what are you talking about?

So my question is why has almost every tank had a hand crank option then, even current modern tanks. I am not against unmanned turrets. But you give something to get something. That is one of them.

I think the oil price discussion is very relevant to Armata discussions. In one of the articles, falling oil profits were tied directly to reduced arms spending, as well as a cut back in Armata procurement. And they are going even lower now.

I am sure you would limit it, but I suspect unless its very limited to very specific situations, people would figure out tactics to get them to fire off a goodly amount of ammo. Also... Don't the enemy FOW levels change between Elite and Iron. I thought there might be another level of FOW in Iron that wasn't in Elite. Is there anyone at BFC that knows all the details of the differences?

I was just thinking that you could drive a jeep around or have infantry run around the inside of some woods and force the AI to fire off all of its ammo. Talk about a feature built to be gamed.