ZPB II

Did the bunker MG take damage? I rarely encounter bunkers, can infantry fire their personal weapons from inside or is it just limited to the bunker's own weapons?

It's a spigot round, the warhead is situated outside the barrel. Atleast that's my guess. I only knew they existed for the 37mm.

The pace and flow of things in Wargame is very different. It's not a simulation, it's an RTS, even though it's more realistic than a typical one. Even though it's a gross generalization, you never escape the feeling of just watching health bars going down at different speeds. Lots of eye candy, things gliding over the landscape and in general things happening very fast. You never experience the truly unpredictable and chaotic nature of a simulation with the excruciating tension of a realistic tempo.

I'm having a lot of fun with this campaign. A plentiful sprinkling of tanks and the new target briefly command! I'm now on the third mission, but I feel I got a win from the second too easily, seeing as this is a 6 mission campaign I will play it again. The mission is simple. You have a company of infantry, some artillery and two platoons of tanks (PzIVs and IIIs.) In front of you are Amis in a reverse slope defense and you need to break through. On my first play, I analyzed the terrain and came to the conclusion that all the good defensive positions beyond the ridge in the treelines can be neatly covered by 2 linear fire missions. I gambled and told them to expend most their ammo (since there's no way I can order arty on the other side of the ridge after the mission starts.) I anticipated correctly and the barrage obliterated the defenses and I pretty much moved my tanks forward unopposed. This was boring so I tried it again, but now it's breaking my balls. If I don't pre-bombard the enemy line it's harsh. There's no way to order artillery on the enemy due to not having LOS and moving units onto the ridge is a big no-no. I move scout teams on the ridge to spot guns, then rush all the tanks on the ridge simultaneosly to target the spots where the AT guns have been seen, but this always ends up with 50% of my tank force gone. I also tried sneaking a spotter on the ridge to point target the guns but I will fall asleep before the mission ends. Any hot tips or do I just accept the fact that it's a very bipolar mission and move on?

Good to hear that there's demand, I'm in the process of making a byte campaign which spans from a couple of platoons to a reinforced company.

I just noticed that if you play as Luftwaffe (my current favourite right now due to the Panzer IIIs. Shame that the Pioneer squads don't have SMGs. Also, it's unsurprisingly risky business to blow up Priests and T30s with a demo charge, you don't want to be near them when they cook) you can get a strafe plane for 37 points and a fully kitted out fighter-bomber for 118 points! The strafe plane has 600x 13mm rounds and 150x 20mm rounds. The Jabo only has 1 bomb in addition to this, so the strafe plane is a bargain! I will run tests and see how often the 20mm pops the engine deck of a Sherman. I've found planes to be devastating in the open terrain so far but this is very anecdotal.

It sounds like you're playing a whole different game than I am. Just yesterday I was messing around with another test scenario. It had 3 battalions (yes, battalions) of infantry dispersed on flat rocky ground 350-500 away from a single elite Tiger on a vantage point with full LOS over the entire map. I spent several minutes with the tank buttoned up and got only vague "?" contacts. I unbuttoned and it took a good minute or so to see a single guy and even then that was because he was for some strange reason running. I have routinely had Tigers take tens of hits from small calibre antitank guns without spotting them. Don't even ask me about taking fire from snipers without ever finding out where from. And this is just on Veteran difficulty. In CMFI especially, with the high elevation offered by many setup zones in QBs I'm routinely amazed by the fact that by the end of the battle there have been unspotted enemies in full view of the bulk of my forces for 30 minutes.

One thing I would like to say, at the risk of sounding ungrateful...I really appreciate the work modders put in the game. I'm really put off by the way some people here treat the stock graphics artists. Creating new textures from scratch is extremely demanding and considerably harder and slower than modifying existing textures. It's very similar to the difference between an artist and a DJ. Now, having said that, I don't know how most our modders operate. I only use a few subdued terrain mods. If they create all the modded textures from scratch then huge and much deserved kudos. But the dissing of stock artists here really rubs me the wrong way.

I'm still not buying into all this spin. It seems like everything's turned upside down and that the poor Tiger is so vulnerable and needs to be pitied. That people who frequently use Tigers in quick battles should be lauded as heroes willing to gamble it all in a blaze of glory, not just soothing their ego with a cheap win. Those bazookas and ATGs just waiting to bum-rush them kittens. I would love to see some statistics. Run a battle with a Coy + 2x Plt of Shermans vs. a Coy + Plt of Tigers a couple of hundred times and see how it goes. Also, I'm firmly under the impression that it was very hard to conceal the movement of entire companies and battalions. Jump-off points were frequently under observation and targeted by artillery. If my assumption is wrong, I will humbly apologize.

Hey Phil, sorry about that, figured it was such a minor thing that didn't warrant it's own thread so I thought I'd mention it here. I'm currently running on an ancient GeForce 8800 GT and I'm seeing a roughly 5-10% drop in FPS with the hotfix shaders even if I have both shadows and shaders toggled off. I never play with shadows anyway, the edges are jagged and they kill my FPS. I've pretty much never had CMx2 crash on me, but 2.0 does it pretty often now, even if I play with shaders off. It's time to upgrade my rig soon. I don't think many people play with graphics hardware this old, so it's probably best not to spend time figuring out why.

Less hyperbole, please. I already proved that the Tiger I is the ultimate death ray using flawless forum logic. Yesterday I played a TCP/IP battle where my opponent had my Italians in his 60mm mortars sights for most of the battle. I suffered 5 casualties from them. Mortars are extremely effective but they do not win battles by themselves. Not in real life, not in Combat Mission.

My point is, how is buying Tigers in CMFI not deciding the battle on the first turn? Yes, it's not an automatic win. But neither is prebattle artillery. But the idea behind them definitely is the same. Win the battle before it starts and don't give your opponent a chance. Tigers can bog or suffer system damage. Artillery can miss, hit your own troops or be completely ineffective.

Right, I'm still on the quest for answers. Why can Joe punch Bob, but Bob isn't allowed to punch back? Airplanes. They can be given enormous area targets. Player A buys Tigers. Player B knows this and buys 3 strafing runs per Tiger. Player B plots the airstrikes for turn 1 and targets them all over player A's side of the map. It doesn't matter if it's a meeting engagement or an assault, the planes will still find their targets regardless of the size of the setup zone. Will Player A still cry foul about his opponent being gamey and attempt to gain moral high ground?

The Tiger is right there in the QB menu. You pick it and know what it means to you and your opponent. The same can be said for prebattle artillery. It's there and it's up to the player to decide. I can't see how you can think these two are different things? How is being restricted to small setup zones different from being restricted to fighting supertanks with sticks and stones? You know your enemy has very limited counters to your supertanks and is going to be destroyed in the subsequent turns. I will also congratulate you on not reading and comprehending the content of my posts and then deciding to go personal. Real solid job there. I'm impressed actually. Do you know when CMBO came out?

He probably thought the Renault was a farming appliance and thus irrelevant to his personal safety.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the finite nature of time and money. This would be an excellent feature, no doubt.

Please elaborate on this logic. It's perfectly legal to bombard anywhere on the map when we use game terms.

This whole discussion got me thinking... I used to play a hundreds of CMx1 games as TCP/IP. I would hang out at the CMHQ chat and stalk new prey. I had all the optimal force buys thought out for all different time periods. I always bought the cheesiest possible units available and used all the underhanded and gamey tactics in the book. I was 15 and I was pwning n00bs three to four times my age. Rush the objectives on turn 1 and send blobs of M8 HMCs hugging the map edge racing forward. Good times. Now, I don't think I've ever done the same thing in CMx2. I always buy the rarer and more obscure stuff that just isn't so good. Halftracks with 37mm pop guns, Stugs in the bocage, Panzer IVs and now IIIs. Infantry guns on the offense. It's just such a tremendous simulation that I find myself doing things that I know I shouldn't do just so I can watch drama unfold in real time. I send tanks racing through hostile terrain just in the hopes of getting to watch a potential Medal of Honor in the works. I find that using perfect textbook tactics, meticulously clearing cover after another with a base of fire and manouver elements while avoiding risks is boring.

By default I play for fun. I am going under the assumption that we are discussing the typical CM scene, which involves long time partners and ladders where you get to know people and recognize certain patterns. Most, including me, would choose the obvious option, the one Steve always reminds us of whenever a discussion about what's gamey and what's not crops up. I wouldn't play him again. But if you absolutely want or have to play against such a person, then my advice is valid.

What fun is it to play a game where it all comes down to who can afford the bigger tanks? You can be pretty sure the guy buying Tigers isn't interested in both of you having fun. I see a lot of fun in bombing the daylight out of the Tigers that someone purchased with the intention of getting an easy steamroll victory in a quick battle. My point is, fight fire with fire. The other guy doesn't want a fair and fun fight in the name of good sports and a jolly time and instead opts to win at all costs to get his kicks. He doesn't want you to have fun so nuke his setup zone and deny him his cheap shot. I for one would not like to play on this ladder of yours for this very reason. It should be either a no holds barred brawl or a gentlemens fight for fun. None of this "you can be as lame as you wish unless you cross an arbitrary line that isn't clearly definable by logic."

There are other people on the radio net. You need to follow procedure and there's traffic...Sometimes you have to wait, sometimes the comms black out. Everything needs to be double checked. It's much easier and faster when the guy is standing next to you.

I could swear I've seen it happen but I've found it extremely hard to replicate and I'm thinking it was a rifle grenade instead of a bazooka. It doesn't help that I play real-time. The whole infantry firing from vehicles mechanic is a bit of a mystery. But what I meant is simply fast moving right next to a tank under the cover of smoke and doing a quick dismount-and-pray. It has worked. I've taken out human controlled StuGs by juggling around them with AFV crews. I've also taken out two Tigers with a human wave attack from hundreds of meters away. Creative tactics do have inherent risks. Also, especially on small maps it is a neat trick to look out for those cool dominant positions that a panzerfetishist would love to park his Tiger on and pose to the world, immune to all incoming fire while having a great view...Unless some gamey bastiche already preplotted these locations and has ordered delayed artillery barrages on TRPs just in case. He can always cancel them...

The thing is. There were 11 Tigers in Sicily if I remember right and they were taken out by naval artillery, aviation or simply the drivetrain giving out. If you want to play a historical game, you encounter a Tiger and then fall back and let the big guns handle it. You use artillery or aviation. You do not want to throw away lives needlessly. You cease fire and lose the match. This is realistic and historical. Now, you can try your luck and plink away at it with small guns and hope to get lucky. Or simply let the Tigers chow down your men and lose. Or you can play the game. Your opponent while not strictly stating it, does strongly indicate little interest in a historical match. He wants to play a game. I routinely use gamey tactics against gamey foes. These involve the liberal use of scout teams and bazooka teams on jeeps or scout cars doing crazy kamikaze rushes assisted by creative use of smoke. Direct WP fire. Deployment zone barrages and air strikes. Drive-by bazooka fire. It's about as historically accurate as a slugging match versus a Tiger. You can't expect to play a historically accurate gentlemen's match if one participant doesn't play by the unspoken rules. Especially if it's a ladder game where people play to win. Nuke his setup zone. Do it. You have to be a really lame and uninteresting person to think that you're allowed to buy Tigers but your opponent isn't allowed to do anything to win. It's behaviour that belongs to a kindergarten.

I meticulously placed 3 battalions of Blackshirts into roughly three action spots... Imagine firing HE into a parade line. It was a 30 minute scenario with 26:54 still remaining on the clock. And yes, my computer was nearing the critical meltdown point. The number was pure coincidence, especially considering it was my first time running this battle.

I tried setting up a shooting range where a Tiger mows down 3 battalions of Italians. The Tiger was knocked out by concentrated fire from 12 mortars in less than two minutes as I kept it stationary. Bazookas and close assault works pretty well if you can close the distance. Any form of concentrated hail fire will strip the Tiger of it's precious components. If your opponent keeps it keyholed, block it with smoke. Air strikes, especially strafe runs are dirt cheap and the Tiger is a big honking target out in the open. If your opponent is lame and cheesy, you can get 4 rocket batteries for the price of one Tiger. Teach him not make lame buys. If you play against someone who repeatedly abuses the quick battle system, simply target his deployment zone with air strikes and rockets at the start of every single game. He will understand the point eventually.