Lethaface

Here's hoping you're right and a real resolution can be reached. I'll toast to that!

Personally I think you're wandering of quite a little bit. This is not 1930/40. Russia's governmental institutions are perhaps not very high on the (utopian) democratic scale, I'd like to think they are quite far from the Nazi regime. If this thing escalates internationally clandestine efforts mimicking the Russian effort would be most likely, accompanied by public financial, logistical and non offensive military aid. TBH I suspect this is already happening, in smaller or larger scale. I see three semi likely end states for this conflict: 1. Diplomatic solution in which East-Ukraine gains some sort of autonomy allowing both Ukraine and Russia to walk away without losing face. 2. Separatists hold gains against UKR efforts and with time East Ukraine joins Russia in South-Ossetian fashion. 3. Ukraine defeats the Separatists (including 'vacationers') in such fashion that Russia is bound to back down With all options leaving Crimea in Russian hands. CMBS shows the unfavorable consequences for all parties in the conflict. Would be great if Porosjenko, Putin and Obama could duke it out in a public AAR battle

It seems McCain has heavily criticized Merkel for this meeting. Wonder if this is good cop, bad cop strategy or just EU and republicans disagreeing about this subject. Personally I think the latter. Unless Putin invades Ukraine in full force aiming for Kiev I don't see the EU willing to ante the stakes beyond sanctions. Where Putin a real gambler he takes both of 'm as hostages in return for East Ukraine

Personally I never blame an individual soldier and granted Iraq was in a FUBAR situation already, the US/Coalition invasion didn't do it no good and many people died because of the f*ckups on political and strategical level. War is hell.

Well, although there is no 100% legal proof publicly available I fully agree that there is only one believable scenario for which there is plenty of indirect proof. I hope one day this case will be legally solved and the culprits punished, although I think the chances for that are low. I'm quite 'involved' in this incident as I'm born in the Netherlands, have lived in Malaysia for quite some time (family in both countries) and have been on the MH-17 flight (MAS AMS-KL) about 10 times in my life. Could have been me there. Apart from who shot the plane down, I think the local people (including firefighters, etc) have done quite a well job assisting securing the remains and belongings considering the hostile environment and geopolitical interests. Since some posters seem to ignore it , my point was that during the aftermath of the downing there was one movie I saw (professional soldiers guarding the train in Torez) which made it 100% clear to me there were Russian troops (no separatists) operating in Ukraine. I know a 'duck' when I see it clearly ;-). At that moment this was new for me. And although I thought it was a good thing Putin ordered some professional, capable, troops to guard those trains I also realized Russia IS directly involved in the fighting in Ukraine. Further first hand movies showed a lot more evidence towards this conclusion, available for everyone with some google fu and a critical eye. So personally I think that denying Russia is directly militarily involved in the Ukraine is on the same page as believing in lizard-people leading the Illuminati NWO . Doesn't matter whether it's a few hundred or some tens of thousands of troops: they have troops there and are directly involved in the fighting, way beyond clandestine operations. Denying that is on the same page as Americans still believing Powell's WMD speech regarding Iraq, the original explanation of the Gulf of Tonkin incident or CIA not being involved in Iran the coup d'etat in Iran (1953), when Mossadegh was ousted in favor of the Shah. I'm just adding those last bits to make clear I'm not thinking the West is or has been holy. So, returning to those that exclaim 'yes but Nato does the same'. It is true that Nato (members) have also fought dirty wars. Also, on a geopolitical level I think the West is a bit hypocrite regarding the Ukraine incident. We have had chances to befriend the people of Russia more than we actually did. But all this is irrelevant here; we are discussing whether Russia is currently directly and significantly involved in the war in Ukraine and in my opinion the only valid conclusion for a sane person is: Yes, it is.

Back from work late I'm a bit surprised of your recent posts. You have made quite a number of well reasoned and informed posts, which I appreciate. However, a sharp eye can make conclusions for itself apart from legal fictions. While I have not digged into this conflict as others have, I have seen quite the number of movies. I want to remind you of two movies I remember from post downing MH-17 period, which I followed closely because a large number of (Dutch) citizens in a commercial airplane were shot out of the sky. The first movie is of a clearly amateurish ex-delivery driver now turned to local soldier with control over a part of the crash site. He holds up a found teddy bear and makes a cross over it to mourn the (probable) dead child owner of the said teddy bear. Few days later there was a movie of soldiers guarding the trains in Torez, holding the found remains of the MH-17 victims. The soldiers I saw in that movie were professional (very clear for a 'sharp eye') Professional volunteers? I bet. But they volunteered long before the trains got to Torez and were obviously there on orders from higher up and not on their own initiative. Apart from that I think it was a good thing they were there at that moment and place. Obviously those weren't Mossad, CIA or MI6 agents Considering the geo political events at the time, it was (for me) 100% clear that troops on direct orders from Moscow, equipped by Moscow, were on the scene. Before that and after that, there have been plenty of movies on sites like liveleak.com, youtube.com, therestoftheinternet.google. Many feature professional (special) non-Ukrainian forces, There are plenty of movies like the one Sgt Joch posted (the large mechanized unit driving around in 'Novorussia') . Those *could* theoretically be very well organized Seperatists armed by Russia (with a part of them being from Russian soil agreed by all parties). Since they aren't fielding any markings, it is unclear what the legal status of those troops is. According to international law they are violent non-state military actors operating in Ukraine. Often such force are called Terrorists, Separatists or Freedom fighters (depending which side one supports). For any critical thinking person it is clear that the forces like the mechanized unit in Sgt Joch's video are orchestrated from Moscow. Whether they are reorganized in deniable formations or structured as when they are housed on Russian soil; it is clear that Russian soldiers are fighting in Ukraine on orders of Moscow. Legalities are important for legal matters, not for simple reality. Russia is fighting a war in Ukraine.

Too many people, unfortunately. You should value being able to filter crappy information as a true blessing

Ahem, it is larger than France

thanks for the laugh!

This is surely the Russian way, da?!

I think a lot is going to be decided whether Bil can reduce the pocket before he runs out of men or has his rear handed to him (overrun). Holding the city is, in hindsight, much more dangerous for Scott than Bil's forces on hill 347 can be. Had Bil had some dismounted ATGM teams, hill 347 could be much more threatening for Scott. Does Bil get any reinforcements still? The first reverse slope/terrain obstructed ambush Scott faced cost him 2 Abrams main guns. Given he has ~15 Abrams Bil still faces very challenging odds, but if the air support can take out a number of vehicles and he is able to use his T-90's to full effect it might become a bloody fight for both. Especially if Scott needs to clear (parts of) Kricheck of Russian troops. Not sure what are the victory conditions but I would count myself as victor, where I Bil, if I could hurt the USA forces significantly.

In a full spectrum conflict like this I think heavy artillery fires on populated area's are a sure thing. Perhaps the assault on Kiev won't be like the Battle of Berlin, but one just needs to look at Syria to see what might happen in urban area's of any (strategic) importance. Not that Donetsk has been exempted of shelling in the current conflict. For the hypothetical CM:BS conflict urban defence, from village to town to suburb to city, is a large tactical, operational and strategic factor imo. Obviously any attacker will bypass urban strongholds when feasible, but be it for political or military reasons sometimes an 'urban' position is in need of taking. At times positions in need if taking are occupied by substantial enemy forces which are due for reduction by (heavy) artillery fires. Civvies better get the hell out of dodge, war is hell and this ain't no hearts and minds type of mission.

Good point. In CMSF I often tried that tactic when sniping with AT-14/13 or Javelins in PBEM games. Obviously the average CM mission isn't about killing one or two high ranking officers, so relocating a sniper after every shot would probably not be the most effective tactic for snipers in CMBS. Could be a fun mission though, 'destroy unit objective' in a high threat environment.

Thanks for the clarification of your (forced) tactics! So you have 12+ all APS equipped Abrams under the gun? Given the Russian (and Ukrainian) focus on ATGM equipped vehicles/troops, APS equipped vehicles might be a large factor in CMBS? In CMSF ATGM/RPG flank shots where a very important tactic for RED forces. Against APS it might be even more challenging to fight BLUE effectively. Although the Russian tanks are probably much more of a match compared to the Syrian tanks, so modern RED on BLUE armored clashes could actually be feasable and interesting. Like others posted in CMSF a head on duel between any BLUE tank VS a RED tank was very lopsided. Still, using hit and run tactics it was very possible to defeat armor heavy BLUE forces with the high end of the Syrian forces (equipped with AT-13, AT-14, T-90S, BMP-3 and RPG-29 a.o.); even in PBEM battles against skilled players. Curious to see how PBEM battles will fare in CMBS. Will RUS vs UKR be dominant and or are RUS vs USA QB's also easily balanced for a fair fight? As stated previously I really enjoy your AAR style, even if it slows down progress.

Mayhem indeed, poor Bill I'm a little surprised by the boldness of your moves. While you have plenty of overwatch those Bradleys seem to be in a vulnerable position with LOF to them from all over the place. A couple of man portable ATGM or even recoiless rifles could have caused quite the number of casualties. The destruction of two AT-15 apparently in LOS/LOF proves that there is plenty of enemy potential. In proper position with just radar and missile sticking out (not fully possible ingame afaik) they could have launched radar riding missiles which can penetrate your Abrams frontally, with a small chance of your assets being able to spot the launch and react in time. Apart from the AT-15 in CMBS, from CMSF I have learned the hard way that some infantry operated AT-14 (don't know the force mix for this scenario) could have genuinely ruined your day.

'Armour Attacks', also from GeorgeMC, was one of my favorite CMSF scenario's.

Great idea. Really liked this one by Bozowans:

There was a thread about the Soviet campaign some time ago, couldn't find it unfortunately. I completed this one but took me quite a couple of evenings. I chose to move up left, middle and right. Advance elements where companies of Rifle infantry, each supported by a platoon of Sappers (to mark/discover encountered mines), Su-76's and various other available assets. In short I advanced until contact with the smallest unit available (split rifle squad or sniper), tried to suppress the enemy position with any asset available and then assault with the rifle company. Took about 100 casualties (WIA/KIA) in total IIRC. Might be a good thing to try to advance until the main line and order the Katyusha barrage on it. I ordered it blind without much effect. It will take quite some time for it to land but you can use that to infiltrate further. I have restarted the thing a couple of times as in the beginning I was expecting the area just beyond the bridges to be mined and spent half an hour crawling sappers across it. Sappers on move orders (no quick or hunt) are pretty good identifying mines, after they have identified them you need to give a mark mines order. Casualties from mines are acceptable.

@Sublime, good excuse! PM send.

@Sublime, you still owe me a turn of a CMFI battle you was winning from over a year ago

Hope to see the return of the Bushmaster III 35/50 on the Dutch CV9035, from CMSF!

CMSF got me interested enough to get all CM games after it, missed out on CMx1 due to the turn based concept (didn't like it at that time). PBEM opened the turn based concept for me and since CMBN I play mostly WEGO, only small battles in RT. I'm still unlearning CMSF, probably because I didn't play at all in 2011 and 2012 (only picked CMBN up in 2013) and I have sunk much more hours into CMSF than any other CMx2 game. I probably enjoyed the challenge of playing with Syrians against NATO power the most (love planning hit and run/die tactics), so I'm very interested in CMBS

I have bookmarked the Battledrill site some time ago, great to see some new updates! With regard to the vehicle pathfinding, I agree that sometimes it can be a bit of a nuisance but in general I have no problems with it. Experience helps in that regard.

Just started reading the book "freakonomics" and can really recommend it based upon first parts. For critical thinkers it won't be that shocking but nice to read anyway, applied economic tools on everyday events dismissing a lot of "conventional wisdom". P.S. Great forum actually can be bothered to read and reply on my phone. First time!

On a positive note: it is great that people from various parts in the world can share their opinions in a civilized way, from their own home. Back to Ukraine: thanks Steve for your answer two pages ago The current winter will surely have it's affect on the coming events in the Donbass, I would say. Another thing is the effects the sanctions, combined with the low oil price, seem to have on the Russian economy. If the ordinary man of Russia starts to feel those, I'm not sure how long Putin's clique will remain in power (or be able to get away with things like Ukraine).