Minty

Banzai! come on Colin , hold on for the love of the emperor!

Hi Kids, So I haven't been around Battlefront for about a year or so, WaW was fun but didn't have much stamina and Patton drives Miss Daisy didn't grab me. How is the pacific theatre game working out? I notice Terif and Liam are MIA still but Rambo seems to be playing.Does it satisfy Blashy's historical sensibilities or not? My opinion has always been that, even more so than the Germans, Japan got itself into a war it could never win in 41 when it took on the US. that doesn't mean it won't make a fun game but it will have to be heavily historically biased in favour of the japanese for them to have any fun playing past 42 onwards. And Happy New Year to all SC1/2 players old and new Minty

Am I to understand from all this that A) SC3 is a while off but SC2 expansions will keep coming the loss of heavy weight players is regretable but inevitable after a certain time C) Seamonkey is considering marrying Hubert for a period no shorter than 37 years !!!

Seamonkey, A good idea, what would it have taken though for Stalin to have declared War on Germany? I don't think he'd have ever done it until , like Japan, they were already weakened by the Western allies. But your argument that the USSR readiness goes is interesting. I can see that whilst teh USSR might be initially relived that Germans are drowning in English beaches IF Sealion were succesfull and it knocks the UK out the Uncle Joe would get very nervous. Ok Germnay could not have done much in early 41 perhaps but it wouldn't take too long to turn all attention east. I think the game models this well and that

True Arado, taking England out does not have the effect it should but then taking England is an lot easier than it should have been. Amphibing (?) is just too easy in SC2 for all sides and it is laughable that HQs alone in foreign lands somehow magically can support half a million men wihout ports, roads, raillinks etc Still it's works and makes for a nice game but in reality there was just no way that Germany could have taken the UK in 40/41 AND put on a Barborossa. so why should there be in the game? So Seamonkey I think actually that a succeful sealion does have the historical impact that could be expected, principally a completed exhausted and over committed 1941 German war machine that could not possibly hope to send 2 million men over the russian border. SC2 is great in that it gives you the option (dubious as to whether it is even possible) that Germany can somehow send hundreds of thousands of supplied soldiers across the channel in 1940 but it does have consequences.

So the AARs seem to have vanished and I liek reading them, posting a short one myself , please post more Mark Y's Axis stage an efficent but cautious take down of Poland, maximising target practice on the polish forces before taking down Warsaw. Meanwhile Denamrk is attacked from Kiel and airsupport. Allies were halfway through loading up to preemptively liberate Norway when copenhagen fell. a change of plan and Bomber commands uncontested dominance over Northern germany leads to XXX corp landing at Kiel with a view to capturing it. It's occupied by subs but Hamburg is empty and is soon in British hands just as winter sets in. More British aggresion in the Med and French forces departing for the homeland cause early Italian entry. after a few turns of naval battle the Italian navy is reduced to the sub force but Malta corp was destroyed trying to amphib over to Libya. Gibraltor corps ,very badly damaged by Italain subs, just mange to get to Malta and turn back a counter amphib force. Spring 1940, XXX corps winter in Hamburg was a quiet one with STDs from the red light district more of a danger than the wehrmacht who seemed to mass around the city. As soon as the thaw came so did the panzers but brave XXX corps held on for a couple of turns and disrupted Axis plans in the west by at least 2 turns. Belgium is conquered with ease and the Germans sweep into France with Italains moving up from the south. confident of making up for the late start Panxers approach Paris only to be surprised by not one but two French tank armies crossing the seine. Colonel De Gaulle destroys one panzer division and the second retreats. But German forces quickly reorganize, the luftwaffe and infantry make short work of the unsupported French tanks and lay siege to Paris which falls in August but Brest appears occupied by british forces. Summer goes by and Brest is not attacked. Have allied forces been over stretched in the Med, Brest and Hamburg? Mark Y clearly thinks so and Sealion is launched in late summer. It's a disaster. The RAF spots thems and the first wave of Royal Navy ships sinks thousands of Germans. The navy is in turn sunk by subs and german planes. The second wave of RN ships attacks ports in Caen and Holland destroying troops as they load. The kriegmarine surface fleet enters the battle and pushes the RN out of the channel to the Irish sea and north but losing all its crusiers in the process. The Germans land in SE england but can't capture a port, looping round Ireland glasgow is captured though but before they can send in more reinforcents a final wave of RN ships, sent hastily from the Med cuts off the German transports. The battle wages all winter, with German forces in Scotland trying to link with unsupplied units in the south but blocked by British tanks. With appalling weather and no airsupport the German attacks grind down until spring when another massive German and Italian wave of transports arrives. The Italians only get in the way and are removed by german HQ only to sunk by what remains of the RN (Five British BB lost but Kreigmarine down to Bismarck and one newly built sub) Eventually in May 1940 London, then quickly Manchester fall but nt before 3 corps are evacuated. 8th army tanks hold Edinburgh for another month until blasted by Stukas. They destroy another panzer though bringing German losses to an (approx) staggering 2 panzers, 4 armies,1 para and 3 corps.Many lost at sea. British forces in North afrika race west and with the Italians unsupported by Fritz and fighting in Scotland make rapid gains to provide plenty of space from their new capital, Alexandria. the USSR has been mobilising since Sealion and when barborossa is launched the Germans make few gains. Riga and Minsk fall but the German airpower is blunted by thousands of advanced Red Army fighter planes. By 42 the gains have been lost, Germany has quickly taken vichy france, norway, yugo and Ireland to bolster production and morale but not even Goebbels could hide that the weakened Wehrmacht is being pushed out of Russia. By mid 42 the last German retreats from Riga and Warsaw is the battle line. The soviets rule the air but, short on supply and men, can't break German forces in Poland before winter. A diversion to the south, stuck in the mountain breaks into romania in early 43 and is coordinated with British forces coming through captured albania and Yugoslavai. Italy loses ground in the desert throughout 42 and Sicily is easily captured, However German troops hold out against newly landed US forces in Rome for over a year. Summer 43 and Germany is fighting a rearguard action against a now full strength Red army. Corps, Anti air and anti tank units create a deep line that is tough for the red army to concentrate fire upon. Soviet tactical bombers and heavy tanks can destory 2 or 3 german units every turn but wave after wave of cheap , well supplied , german replacements make the advance slow. German Anti tank weapons prove very cost effective, wearng down veteran Soviet tankers. Deciding to bypass the UK and Italy, the allies decide to eliminate all fascist forces entirely and invade Spain. with the support of 2 full teched out aircraft carriers the US navy quickly secures the atlantic but unexpectedly the U boats come out of nowhere to destroy 2 transports before being finally eliminated. The bismarck is hiding in the baltic shelling Russians along the coast. Spain is attacked from the Med, gibraltor and the atlantic. Francos forces hold out well in mountains and the U boats sinking buy thema him a turn or two of time but eventually they succumb leaving the way open for a rapid advance into France. Fast moving British corps have been roaming around the french countryside all summer, forraging in the fench countryside, avoiding the lightly garrisioned cities and cutting communications and supply. In late 43 Berlin falls. Entrenched around Munich all winter the german forces await the final assault but are bypassed by the soviets to attack northern Italy. Finally in May44 both Rome, Berlin, London and Paris are all taken. the Key turning point was clearly sealion. Mark showed that if you want to take the UK then nothing can stop you but with such huge losses he could not get them replaced in time for Barby. Allied strategy was very aggresive at first but not so much as to leave UK undefended. Extra tanks for Britain and France were expensive early investments but they each destroyed german panzers units that were not present at Barby. In turn the Allies lost momentum in 43 after destring vast numbers of axis forces in 42. considering Iwas in Germany in late 42 and haled half of Italy I was foolish in allowing the Axis to reorganise defences. Although spain proved a useful way into France and landing point in Wst europe for US forces, Rome and Munich would have fallen faster if I had concentrated all allied forces in the Med and pushed north rather than worrying about liberating london and paris. Axis subs remained a threat all game but never really achieved a signifcant presence after the kriegsmarine and Royal navy destroyed each other. Now post your AARs!!!

Let capital ships raid covoys, it is realistic and would be SO much fun. They would or could be devasting (imagine KGV and sisters vs Norwegain trawlers) but would have diplo conqequences, not as deniable as a sneaky torpedo

Sea Monkey, i read your post 4 times and it made sense less each time.

I know I'm a an SC2 newbie butI thought I'd posted much more bollocks than just 130 in that last 2 years...

Hey Rambo only 19 posts to go for the quadruple number of the beast.

North Afrika would be a great setting for it, can YOU do better than Rommel? Was montgomery overated? 1 year 20 turns, Jan 41 to Dec 42. tobruk, malta, alex got it all. Woudl take some testing to see it were fair but it would be good to have a "gold standard" scenario that 2 opponents could get through in either one evening of six pack fuled action or a week of PBEM. Scores as well would give an indication of ability. Of course it would be become gamey but that is part of the fun alternative is a ahistorical Sealion. say july 40 to june 41. that could be a LOT of fun and would have battle of britain, naval battles, conveoy raiding, amphib landing, supply line management, strategic bombing, and tank battles. Actually forget north afrika we need a 20 turn, point scored sealion scenario

Hi All, Good to be back in this new space, impressed that Seamonkey has been here since 69, I joined in new years 1970 apparently just a couple of years before I was born. Anyway tis a new forum but let the old philosophy prevail even if some of the great and good have moved on. Let us encourage more to join our little hobby here,challenge us and have fun in numerous debates that are possibly related to game issues and if not then obscure politics, minor historical points over how many left sided boots the USA land lease sent to the soviet union in 1943 or just to to Jersey Johns's favourite kids program from 20 years before the rest of us were born DD - I await your chistening of the new forums Bring it on and I'll still beat the lot of you as Allies in WaW (I'm working on Axis) PS More AARs please , I'll post some but lets have more

Tremendous, your eloquence is as entertaining and unsurpassed as ever Desert Dave. Ok well that's most of the super vets accounted for or at least mentioned. Jersey John's insightful thoughts on WaW and PDE would be most welcome. Can't seem to see much of Blashy either, maybe his historical soul is upset about the options in PDE, doubt it though as he playtested it didn't he? Anyway enough of rollcall. I need to get back into practice. I liked JG's challenge that no one can beat him aa allies (except for Yoda of course). Problem is I tend to agree, the Axis game does have to be flawless to go the full distance against a good player and I've more practice as allies. So this week's question - are Axis tougher to play against (good) human opposition? and if so, is this common to just SC2 or does WaW or PDE change the balance?

Yep I had noticed the lack of AARs too. Even on the supposed WaW tournament (who won that?) That's how I learned to play by reading them and seeing Terif kick people's butt in ever more effective ways. Well just starting a game now after a 6 month break, could be interesting so will start an AAR once France has fallen if it's has anything going on of note. One reason for the lack of AARs may be my suspicion that WaW smothers the strategic options a little so there are fewer radical plays to write about. However from what Colin I tells me about PDE that should increase again given the early start and the decisions should lead to a wider variety of outcomes. We'll see. Jollyguy, I'm very impressed by your determination but inclined to agree with Retributar. At the very least swap over to Axis for a game or two. You won't win either but maybe you'll see more from his perspective and he might be forced to come up with some new allied moves you can use against him later (although he'll no doubt have worked out a counter at the same time) If you do need a whipping boy (but not total gimp) to practice on then I'd be happy to assist your noble cause by acting as target practice. I'm sure many of the other lesser capable , but competent, players would do too. anyway nice to see some of the familar names even if Rambo, Terif, Desert Dave et all are MIA at the moment.

Hey, So I got bored of WaW but am now back. However where did everyone else go? where is Terif,Rambo, jollyguy, all the supervets who have nutured this through since the SC1 days?

sorry I just read this. Hilarious. Good job Moon, good job.

bit out of practice but I'll give you a game. minty @ rocketmail.com

So I haven't played WaW for ages after defeating everyone I played at it in the New year in HvsH and generally finding it was more restrictive than SC2 in terms of strategic scope. However got back into it over the weekend, thought I would warm up with a quick AI game on expert. Bloody hell I nearly lost! I hadn't really played the AI in WaW and was expecting the same numbness as in SC2 (or SC1 for that matter). Took me until Nov 46 to win. Good Job Hubert, really was not expecting that.

technology of the ealry 50s?? to misquote Rambo " what sort of bunta loving jibba jabba is this?" A couple of radio guided missiles, a few automatic assualt rifles that cost a fortune, night sights that didn't work,200 ton tanks that could barely move and rocket planes that blew themselves up does not put the third reich into Sputnik territory. Meanwhile the Wehrmacht was the most dependent of all the major forces on mules and horses notjust at the end but even at Barbarossa. Zenith of 30s technology? The Allies had Radar,Jet fighters,an abundance of automatic infantry weapons, faster more powerful tanks by 45, motorised corps, truly combined arms oh and the atom bomb. But back onto the subject of this post. Canada option would be great but agreed, as it would make UK almost permanently "safe" then Germany needs a counter balance. Diplo hit on all europeans nations sounds realistic, morale boost too perhaps also bomber in iceland disapears giving germany a window of oppurtiity to capture it quickly.

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Airbases would just tie WaW and down further in the tactical, leave less room for strategy. 2500 square miles? that would fit the whole luftwaffe twice over. only thing maybe is to limit them in them being based in the mountains.

This seems to be a common trap that the Axis are falling into. Just because the UK takes Norway doesn't mean Axis need to liberate it. Colin I and I played a game where this happened and by the time Colin (axis) had dealt with Norway then Barborossa was so off schedule it never made much progress and Germans surrendered by 42. Axis need to put jack boots and lots of them into Russia as soon as they can. In this game the Axis seem way off timetable and my money is on Allies. Seems like the Nazis are fighting where the allies want them to.

I love AT although you can argue that all these new units are choking gameplay. Anyway AT is deadly, especially with AT tech 2 or more. don't use your expensive tanks to take out enemy tanks, use motorised AT. then your tanks can fininsh off the armour or start smashing through infantry. Use it defensively as Tank repellant forcing the opponent to send in the troops or planes to take it out or aggresively chasing down tigers or JS1s. It never seems to live long but does a lot of damage

Oh dear, I may regret my bravado! Thanks

Timskorn, in the unlikely event you are short of opponents or if people drop out then I would be very happy to join in at whatever round either newbie or veteran. probably too late and I should have had the balls to commit sooner. but if you need the numbers then let me know or email at minty at rocketmail dot com I've played a quite a few human opponents now at WaW and sadly think it is flawed.will be happy to display how by kicking anyones ass at it.